Georgia Fiero Club Forum
All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: Fierofool on January 06, 2013, 10:07:38 pm
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Moved from General Fiero Chat for Pete Matos
...Quote from: Fierofool on January 03, 2013, 10:17:25 PM
Check the 2 fuel injector fuses. Bank 1 and Bank 2. They're marked TBI Inj 1 and TBI Inj 2. If you're getting a strong unburned gas smell from the exhaust bad enough to burn your nose and eyes when you stand behind it, I'd check the Coolant Temperature Switch just above the water pump.
Fierofool,
Hey man I have not been on this forum for some time now. I popped in here this evening and saw this thread. As you may or may not know I am trying to fix my 85GT I got here and it is running like crap similar to what Chaz's car is doing here. It SOUNDS like the engine is missing but you can drive it around and it occasionally will kinda clear out and run but mostly it just sounds like crap. You mentioned the coolant temperature switch, what will be the result if this switch is bad or not hooked up because my car will choke you out pretty quick if you stand behind it when it is running. Do you have a picture of this switch, there is a large black cylindrical electrical part around that area on mine that was unhooked but I plugged it back in and there was no change. Also I know that you do the refurbishment of the headlight motors are you still doing that and what do you charge for doing a set for me? I need to post some things in the want ads here as I am looking for some parts needed for my car.
I am chronicling the buildup in my thread on Pennocks which started with an odd name, it is called " Looking for input on my next fiero project". I am hoping that I can email Cliff Pennock and have him change the name here soon, I'd like to call it something else LOL.. Anyways I have done a complete compression check on the engine and got some decent numbers and I THINK I have it timed right, it runs too good to be too far out and I timed it with the coil wire so I could see the difference between 1 and 4 pistons.... It is right on 10BTDC now.. It just runs like crap and I am out of ideas here, if I cannot find a cause I will have to tear off the intake and heads and see what the hell is wrong inside. I can post a video of it running. I drove it around quite a bit yesterday and it feels like it wants to go... Just something stopping it. I read about the damn cold start injector issue but I am not sure what to do to bypass it really. I guess I could just unplug it but I might have to remove the disty again to get to the darn wire. It is kinda tight in there. Any advice here would be most appreciated. I'd love to be able to drive this baby and come down to meet you guys for monthly meets again LOL...peace
Pete
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On the passenger end of the engine are several sensors. The big cylindrical upright just to the left of the battery is the oil pressure sending unit. The horizontally positioned cylindrical object is the EGR Solenoid. The Coolant Temperature Sensor is located above the water pump and below the thermostat housing neck. You will need to remove the EGR solenoid for easier access.
The CTS screws into a reducer which in turn screws into the lower intake manifold. It's positioned horizontally with the terminal end pointing toward the passenger side of the car. The CTS looks almost identical to the Gauge sending unit located in the left end of the head, near the ignition coil, except that the harness connection is oval shaped rather than round. Once the EGR solenoid is unbolted by it's single mounting bolt, it's readily visible. The harness connection is identical to the Thermac or Intake Air Temp sensor located in the air filter canister.
If the CTS defaults to the cold side, which it usually does, it will cause the ECM to pulse the injectors longer, thinking the engine is cold. The result can be a very eye-stinging exhaust. You can unplug it and see if it improves, but if you do, it will set a code. It seldom sets a code when it goes bad, which makes it more difficult to pinpoint.
I forgot about the headlight repair question. I get $30 each plus parts and shipping for Gen. 1 motors. Gear sets are $20 each for the plastic gears. I get them from The Fiero Store. You can provide them and I warrant my labor, or if I purchase them, I also cover gear failure for the first 90 days.
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Fierofool,
Hey thanks for the explanation, I am gonna check it out. Probably just unplug the sucker first to see if that changes anything. Wish you were closer maybe you could help me figure out what the hell is wrong with this thing LOL.. On the headlight buckets the price sounds fair but I am gonna have to probably drive down for a club meet or something and give them to you and then pick them up on another club meeting or something because shipping these both ways will not be cheap I think. I actually had taken apart my last ones and was ready to follow buddy craigs video for rebuilding them but I had talked to Robsfieros and he said he has some already rebuilt he would swap me for so I took him up on it. I think he charged me $100.00 for both of them and he even installed them into my car when I drove down there for the club meet. I guess those were the good old days now LOL.... peace
Pete
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Shipping each way is under $20. I think I shipped JohnyRottin's to him for less than that and Kathryn's went to her for about $12, I think.
So, for 2 headlights rebuilt, $60
Two Gear sets, $40-my cost not counting shipping to me from The Fiero Store.
Shipping to me and back to you, each direction $15
Total--$130 with a 90 day warranty on labor. Gear warranty per Fiero Store's policy.
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Doh I guess I was thinking the whole headlamp assembly and not simply the motors themselves would be expensive. I will see if I can get the funds together as I need the lights working but right now I am still trying to sort out my running issues. If the car would run smooth I could move onto other things in KY project here....there's tons of little niggling issues in this particular car unfortunately that need addressed. Peace
Pete
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Check all of your electrical grounds. Start with the one between the engine and battery. Check for continuity between the engine and frame. Check from the ECM to the chassis.
When was the last time you had the distributor cap off? Check for condensation in the cap and check for tiny rust 'hairs' on the trigger ring.
And this may sound weird but...check the 4-pin connector where it plugs into the ICM. Look for corrosion or connector pins push back inside the connector.
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Roger,
Hey man thanks for the tips. Actually I already went thru the distributor and have done a complete TuneUp with new wires cap rotor plugs etc. I did a compression check and everything seems okay with the engine. It actually runs but sounds like crap and I have been tinkering with it foe awhile now trying to get it running good. I will try to check those grounds and the connector etc. Thanks man....peace
Pete
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Is this Wes's old car Pete?
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Yup sure is....why ya got any suggestions? Like I said it is running and driving just sounds like crap. Hows your Turbo build coming along? Have not seen or heard from ya in awhile. Peace
Pete
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Just another shot in the dark but, have you made certain that the plug wires on the firewall side are seated properly?
Kaka occurs.
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Yeah man been all over the TuneUp stuff here. Brand new plugs wires, cap,rotor,ICM,dusty cleaned Ans pickup coil replaced. I do need a passenger side engine mount mines shot... Finally got it registered today tho so she's at least legal to drive LOL. Maybe if I drive it some more I can sort out the issues easier. Right now I'd pay someone a bit just to help me get it sorted out but don't wanna take it to a mechanic and get screwed into the ground. It was actually kinda fun driving down to the courthouse today to pickup the tags. Car needs lots of little things but it is not too terrible. Peace
Pete
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I had suggested that Wes get the compression checked, I think it's got a valve train issue or lifter issue.
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Already did a compression check, it was decent considering the age of the car. I am wondering if the can sprocket is off a tooth or something. It actually runs but sounds like crap. I would LOVE to get it sorted here so I can enjoy driving it more. Any help or ideas you have would be appreciated. Have you been under the Hood on this one before? Gimme a shout sometime I hope to be able to hang out with some Fiero folks from TN with it soon...peace
Pete
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what was the compression on each cylinder? it could have the cam off a tooth but he said the guy that put it back together says he had it right on... who knows. there are only so many possibilities here. the fact that it would backfire once it got to high rpm reminded me more of a cam being wiped
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Actually I never said it backfired at higher rpm really where did you get that info from? I'd love to speak with whoever it is that did work on the car because I have no idea of the history or any parts that went into it. Honestly it runs too well and holds idle too well for the cam to be off a tooth which is why I did not take it apart already. There is definitely something amiss and so far I have not been able to figure it out. I am usually pretty good with cars but this one has me stumped pretty good. If I cannot get it sorted soon I may be forced to pull the motor and get another one for it. What do you mean by the cam being wiped exactly? Again any information wuld be most helpful. I am actually driving the car most days now since I got it registered but I really wish it would run right. Peace
Pete
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You said the timing is at 10 degrees BTC.
Question: Do you have one of those harmonic balancers with 3 timing marks on it?
If so, did you use the center mark (the thicker of the 3) to set timing?
If that is okay then there may be an intake gasket leak. This won't throw a code.
And if you're getting MPG to brag about, have you checked the Oxygen Sensor? (You say that it is runing very rich too? Something here ain't adding up.)
Bad O2 Sensors will not necessarily give you a code.
(I don't know how to tell you to check these and I don't know the mileage on the motor or, if it's ever been changed).
What I'm getting at is by what I understand, you have a lean fuel condition. Therefore, intake gasket leak, timing too advanced, O2 sensor shot.
Does it backfire when you decelerate?
Is it just LOUD?
In which case have you checked for exhaust leaks?
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Actually there is no backfire issues at all. The car does surge some and has a miss feeling when you are driving but at constant RPM it smooths out somewhat still ^%!)ty but smoother. The compression numbers were in spec for an engine of its age. The car has around 100k OR so and I timed it off the coil plug wire using two cylinders to take out any slop in the system. There is definitely an exhaust leak ticking sound and when you Rev it up there is smoke from the engine bay a slight puff from the rich mixture. I actually got a fellow sending me a used o2 sensor in the mail to make sure it is not that. I dunno I have been all over the intake and ignition systems checking for leaks and could not find any. This ones a puzzler for me so far. Like I said it starts right up and idles and runs and the way it drives is occasionally smoothed out sorta but never really runs right. Frustrating thing for sure. I tore into the headlight motors over the weekend and need to order the gears as soon as I find some cash.They look fine but one of the gears is smoked....always something right....peace
Pete
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Well guys still trying to fix this GT here. I actually tore apart the headlight motors and am rebuilding them with some new gears. I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with the motor. Drove it around quite a bit today and it seems like it runs halfway decent at part throttle but accelerate or decelerating it misses pretty good and I noticed today that the oil pressure gauge on the cluster if that is what that is fluctuates quite a bit and when I am idling it drops down into the red quite often. Rpm makes it fluctuate rather wildly. Not sure what is going on there. I would think if the oil pressure was that low I'd have fried the motor by now as much as I have been driving it lately. The check engine light comes on when it drops down like that but then it goes away with some RPM after a second or two but never stays lit. Lots of little itmes are annoying on the car but it is not terrible just barely better than terrible LOL.... makes me realize how nice the old 86 GT I used to have really was...damn I miss that car and the four speed also. Oh well any more ideas. Still waiting to receive the O2 sensor from the UPS guys and maybe that will help but I doubt it honestly. Peace
Pete
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You said check engine light but do you mean low oil light? With the gauge fluctuating, I'd check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge to be sure exactly what pressure you really have at idle and operating temperature. If you need to replace the pressure sending unit, I'd suggest paying the extra dollars, go to NAPA and get an Echlin or Standard brand sender. Then check it at idle and operating temperature.
AutoZone sells an old school mount-under-the-dash oil pressure gauge made by SunPro. It's somewhere between 10 and 15 bucks and has the standard 1/4 NPT fitting for the end of the pressure line. Exactly what our sending units have, so it's a direct screw in. That gauge can come in handy for many years.
It might be worthwhile to take a drive up or meet Derek somewhere and have him put a scanner on the car. That should identify your rich burn and poor runability problems so you're not throwing money at it.
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I didnt have to hear you tell me that it backfired, I got to look at the car well before he got rid of it. It did it while he had it here and I adjusted the timing which was severely retarded. We set it up and got the timing correct and it sounds like it could be a wiped cam lobe. They will still idle with a cam lobe half gone. When they get to high RPM, they start to backfire, miss and carry on. The car needs the engine pulled apart and gone through better than the last guy who said he was going to. You've obviously have exhausted all other explanations and ideas... The car was severely lacking in power and it had TWO mufflers on it because someone told Wes it backfired really bad and a lot and that would cure it. It didn't and I explained all this to Wes once before. The oil pressure can be very low and still provide enough lube at idle to keep the engine from seizing up. That is still a good indication of detrimental internal engine wear or a bad oil pump. You have never said what those compression numbers are and there shouldn't be any difference from age, they are either right or low. If they are low or you have one more than 20% lower than the other, there is a problem and this could be your issue. The car could still make good compression and have a wiped cam lobe. The bottom line is that this engine needs to be pulled apart and gone through. You can't just "tune up" this issue. It would just tune the problem up, making it worse. If you need to have someone do this, our garage specializes in Fiero repair and we can even tow it here for you. BTW the o2 sensors are about 15 bucks at autozone, why get a used one that will probably have issues too?
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Since I have owned the car I have never heard it backfire once. It has a bad stumble and feels like it is missing. Other than that it idles fine albeit a Tad higher than normal and it starts right up. It is definitely down on power but again the compression checks good on all cylinders. I am not really sure what is wrong with it and I already fixed several problems on the engine so it is not the same car you worked on really. It had a HUGE fuel leak that I am actually amazed nobody else caught and the dusty looked like hell. Right now I am driving it daily and if I could get it to smooth out I'd be amazed if it did not run and sound like a stock car should. I was also aware of the second muffler too and plan to cut it out here soon and stick a straight pipe in there. Managed to get the headlights rebuild last night and I want to install them and see if they work but it is pouring rain out and the shop is full of a customers project I am working on. Peace....
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Well, just hit me up if you would like us to take a look at it. We are here to help.
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Derek,
Honestly I would love for you to look at it but I don't think driving it up your way in its present condition would be the best idea. It runs but it is not happy and it was bad enough driving it down here.from where I got it in that condition. Been working on other things a lot lately and just now getting some time to tinker with the car. It may wind up I have to pull the top end apart but I still am not sure it is not some kinda sensor problem or something stupid that I have not been able to find. If you ever make your way down south here for anything and are in the area gimme a shout. Ill buy ya a nice steak dinner if you'll take a peek at it LOL.... Wes is supposed to be bringing his 300zx down for me to work on here soon I guess but I have not heard from him lately. Peace
Pete