Post by: MetalBlue85GT on April 14, 2013, 12:51:02 pm
- I have not replaced anything in the ignition system.
- i have not checked timing yet.
- this is the first time this has acted this way in 500 miles since I bought it.
- Only engine work was to put the EGR system back to stock (uncapped it).
After good food and good company ~ my son and I started off for the forty mile drive home. In stop and go for about 20 minutes speed started to pick up and we were cruising about 60. as i accelerated slowly the car would start to stall and then fire back up and run fine; when I woudl settle in to cruise again and accelerate it woudl load up stall and fire back up and act fine.
So here is where I started my troubleshooting: I was @ cruise about 60mph, pushed deeper into the pedal this time it full an stalled and then backfired when it lit back up. Once it recovers from teh stall it is normal with all the power and response. But once i keep a steady pedal for a short time and accelerate it does this. Once I was off the free way i tried it at cruise at 35 - same results - 45 same results.
I have it parked in the garage at this time and I am thinking I am goint o take it on a local ride to see if it is still there after a cool down as start up again.
After I hear back from you fine fiero owners I will decside where to begin.
Timing, Plugs, wires, cap, rotor.
What are your preferences on Plugs. Mine in my boat are iridium - I was thinking the same due to the higher RPMs of the 2.8 Auto on the freeway.
Post by: Fierofool on April 14, 2013, 01:39:46 pm
Stall out at acceleration can be the TPS or maybe the MAP sensor. Timing would be suspect unless it just started suddenly. Be careful on the TPS. The attachment screws are aluminum and tend to break off in the throttle body. You can't drill them out and tap for a larger size because the TPS won't accept a larger screw so the only way to repair is to install a thread-sert, which would require removing the throttle body. SO, I'd mess with the TPS as a last resort.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on April 14, 2013, 04:22:50 pm
I forgot to mention - Pervious owner removed catalytic and recently replaced O2 sensor howerver since it was running soooo rich with the EGR capped maybe that is a nother place to look. I will get both and change them one at a time to see if that works first.
And no Check engine light yet since I bought it.
Post by: CowsPatoot on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 pm
Post by: Fierofool on April 14, 2013, 05:19:01 pm
Check the vacuum line coming off the MAP. If you have a MightyVac hand vacuum, pull about 5 inches of vacuum to see if it leaks down. Could be a small crack in the line. These are just some of the areas that can cause a stumble when you accelerate. Check all the vacuum lines that connect to the intake. There are two that are difficult to find underneath the throttle body and the neck of the intake. Make sure they're well connected.
Removal of the EGR system can also cause backfires if not done correctly as can vacuum leaks.
Post by: Fierofool on April 14, 2013, 05:42:25 pm
Post by: Raydar on April 15, 2013, 06:24:55 pm
The TPS responds directly to throttle input.
Think of it this way: On a carb, you have an accelerator pump. On EFI, you have the TPS, and the ECM and injectors responding to it.
The injectors have to provide an electronic "pump shot". The TPS is the only thing that moves quickly enough to make that happen.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on April 15, 2013, 06:54:57 pm
I will tinker with it over the next few weeks and post what i find here. I love the mightyvac idea - i do have one...
good times
Post by: TopNotch on April 15, 2013, 09:36:49 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on April 16, 2013, 08:27:43 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on June 29, 2013, 11:10:49 am
but something new happened - It did not seem to down shift properly when I came to a stop and stalled the car. it starts right back up but I put it into gear it stalls again.
I cycled the auto shifter through all gears and then tried again and it down shifted and started to act normal then it will do it again as I came into my neighborhood and stopped at stop signs. I let it sit for a week before I would drive it. I took it around close on a cool day and nothing. So I drove it June 28th to work and in the morning nothing but again its back on the way home this time with no AC running. it was a hot day Friday.
I also noticed that this happens when the cars temp gauge is elevated a line past what it normally sits at.
All this may not be related but just wanted to share.
Here is the list I am going to start now that its back two times in a row:
-MAP Sensor and vacuum hoses
- Plugs, Cap and rotor
- Fuel Filter
- last resort TPS - And I am reading the Pennocks link now.
Post by: TopNotch on June 29, 2013, 05:07:40 pm
but something new happened - It did not seem to down shift properly when I came to a stop and stalled the car. it starts right back up but I put it into gear it stalls again.
It's the torque converter control (TCC) solenoid. Not to hard to replace. For a temporary fix, pull the blue wire on the firewall side of the transmission.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on June 29, 2013, 06:51:48 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on July 01, 2013, 06:40:08 pm
That is next on my list of to dos; probably over this weekend.
Post by: TopNotch on July 01, 2013, 10:29:01 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on July 04, 2013, 11:23:04 am
But one thing at a time - so I know. its going to be a fun few weeks - I am lucky I have a backup car. just the 11mpg is going to hurt after getting 22 for so long. :)
Thanks for the help.
Post by: Fierofool on July 04, 2013, 01:07:14 pm
The hose is rather expensive at about a buck an inch for a 6 inch piece in a blister pack. But it's worth it to not have to worry about again.
Edited to refer you to the Tech Tips section, Replacing A Fuel Pump.
I will be moving this topic to the Tech Tips section this afternoon since it deals with problems and solutions.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on August 04, 2013, 08:12:22 pm
Here are the symptoms:
After I start it first thing in the AM and with the TCC disconnected everything runs fine for the first 15 mins. After a solid warm up I am stalling (no back fires) and then fires back up. It happens at all drive speeds to include stops. last time I drove the car it first happened in a sharp turn with half a tank of fuel.
Right now I have it in the Garage about to change the TCC - then back to trouble shooting this underlying issue.
I will start with the obvious from the thread above.
Any other ideas that when the car gets warm - that it just randomly either quits firing or stops fuel delivery - It is going to be hard to trouble shoot since its sporadic.
Anyone close (Acworth) wanna go for a ride and see it first hand?
Post by: TopNotch on August 05, 2013, 09:48:17 am
Ignition module
"Fancy" spark plugs (iridium, platinum, etc.)
Fuel system (filter, pump)
Sensors
Worn engine (causing drop in oil pressure)
Experts out there, feel free to add to this list.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on January 26, 2014, 04:12:18 pm
I am in the middle of replacing the magnetic Pickup and I have a shattered magnet and need it replaced. (I put a request in the Market).
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/131555.html#p8
Here is my Pennocks listing... has a lot of detail.
I put pictures in there too.
I have been doing one fix at a time, and I am almost all the way through the ignition system and I changed the Fuel Filter to, both sides of the fuel looked clean that poured out of the filter.
Any other pointers?
Post by: Fierofool on January 26, 2014, 05:34:57 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on January 26, 2014, 08:41:16 pm
If yours is in one piece this will make a good distributor I can offer it to the Market for free or donor Car. If the new distributor fixes this intermittent issue then I can plan to come out to the meeting again...
I am sure in Spring when I clean out the garage I am going to bring all of my extras out for people to pick through. just so I don't throw anything away.
Post by: Fierofool on January 26, 2014, 10:56:10 pm
We have a good engine and what should be a good distributor in the original Joel Project, and there's one that's at least operational in the Joel Project #2 car. We can make one of our two and sell it to fund the Joel Project.
BTW, the distributor you're getting from Advance is the same one you would get from The Fiero Store.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on January 29, 2014, 06:38:55 am
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 01, 2014, 03:55:09 pm
I am going to work on all the grounds first but I am sure I will end up on the tank next.
EDIT - All engine grounds have been updated. Next are the few hundred through out the car.
Test drive today to see if the symptoms change.
And I will be adding a Fuel Pressure gauge temporarily.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 03, 2014, 09:10:02 pm
Does anyone know because mine is missing That I would definitely have this kind of problem? I do not have blowers for engine area.
Update - Added new grounds to engine block to Frame and removed and reinstalled after a good dremel pass - Didn't fix the stalls but the windows roll up faster Dash lights are brighter and Electric locks open and close better.
Added the fuel Pressure gauge - 41 psi with car off - bleeds off to 20 PSI in 20 minutes.
started the Car and it ran just below 40 PSI. NEXT I Will heat the car up to stalls and check again. Probably Saturday unless I get off earlier this week.
Randy
Post by: Fierofool on February 03, 2014, 10:22:31 pm
Some say you don't need the tubes. Their basis is that they were absent on the 88's. The reason they weren't needed is that the 88 uses a smaller alternator that runs cooler and the crossover pipe was moved away from the ignition coil and distributor.
Normal fuel pressure should be about 43.5 psi and drop to about 39-40 when running at road speed. You should be able to hold pressure for at least a half hour. With low fuel pressure, you would be starving the engine and I could see the possibility of it stalling when you come to a stop because of the low system pressure.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 05, 2014, 05:31:56 am
I cant imagine that this Blower is the reason but I am still convinced that it has something to do with heat.
Whether it is 90 out or 20 out; at the 1 to 1.5 hour mark this thing stalls. the second odd symptom is that it dies easier with an electrical load once it does start the stalling. I noticed that in 20 degree whether it starts after waiting a shorter amount of time then it did last summer and Fall.
Electrical is FM to me and I always hated chasing Gremlins in aircraft.
More to come.
Randy
Post by: Fierofool on February 05, 2014, 08:23:22 am
Once it begins the stalling tactic, have you tried putting it into neutral as you're approaching a stop sign or light? Maybe it has a Stahl torque converter installed in it. ;)
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 05, 2014, 07:31:34 pm
Well I hooked up the relay tonight and the Blower works. I found duct that has a flange but no pipes connected. It is only stalling after 1 to 1.5 hours of run time. The duct is blowing light breeze cool air bit it is not right on to the ALT. and nothing going to the coil area. f
It runs well until the first stall. I have it running out there now trying to get to stall point. I have a test light Fluke and my Pressure gauge all hooked up.
electrical charge is 14.21v running. The RPMs dip 300-400 RPM when I run the headlights up. I have an electrical load on it now trying to force the stall.
I will let you know. Thank you for the conversation.
Post by: Fierofool on February 05, 2014, 08:39:04 pm
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 06, 2014, 08:26:55 pm
Someone in PFF also posted that pic today on a thread I have there too.
I will work on the Car this Saturday morning and possibly drive my other addiction to the Club meeting. Well since I have only been to one meeting last year I guess I need to stay consistent and have another this year. maybe that way I will get the bug to get my Fiero someday. I will bring all of my extra parts to donate to the donor car.
Much rather put them there than the trash when I clean out the garage this spring.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 08, 2014, 04:24:58 pm
I hope the meeting was good - Hopefully I can get this on the road solid after this weekend.
When it starts to stall the fuel Pressure dropped to 20 and fluxing - the Battery read 13.8v while running (seemed a little low but the car was running for an hour. so it was hot)
The test light stayed steady at the power on the aldl pin.
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 10, 2014, 09:42:39 pm
thanks for all the support. I will post here if it stalls again. I may need an ECM upgrade if this pump does come through.
Post by: Fierofool on February 10, 2014, 10:21:23 pm
http://www.pullapart.com/inventory/search.aspx
Post by: MetalBlue85GT on February 14, 2014, 09:52:24 am
- no issues putting the load on the electrical system.
- no stalling at all.
Putting this issue to bed.
Starting a new post though TCC started to act up again - I just replaced it.