Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: f85gtron on July 26, 2015, 01:00:20 am

Title: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 26, 2015, 01:00:20 am: I've replaced the iac, reset the ecm and this icm actually works, but it's having trouble catching the idle before it stalls. Also, the ecm data through the aldl is all wonkey. It seems to me I should be looking at grounding points tomorrow. As well as plugs and wires. Anybody have any suggestions on the idle thing?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on July 26, 2015, 01:50:34 pm: As I posted in another thread, the timing was right on +10 when I checked it. Nothing should have changed, but I wonder if the timing was bumped up to 11 or 12 BTC, would it be a solution. That would bring the idle up a little and shouldn't cause any spark knock.

As for the wonky stuff coming out of the ECM, that's furrin' stuff to me.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Roger on July 26, 2015, 03:18:38 pm: Vacuum leak? Clogged PCV? Dirty air filter?

Try putting a can of SeaFoam in the tank and run it around awhile.

Maybe run it up I-20 and blow the gunk out?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 26, 2015, 05:50:07 pm: Ok. Today was and wasn't fruitful.
The car idles, idles in gear, but as soon as you put it in park, it dies most of the time. Does good when the ac is on, does good in gear....just when it's placed into park.
I'm not crazy because Pgackerman came by to help and check it out and it did it to him too.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 26, 2015, 07:16:13 pm: I just read a couple posts on Pennocks about this same condition and they solved it by way of replacing a stick open egr. It so happens that I have a known good egr valve sitting here that had no home on my car. I'll swap them tomorrow and have a good look at the one I'll take off
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on July 26, 2015, 08:06:26 pm: I pulled and held vacuum on the egr but that doesn't eliminate carbon keeping it open. It may only need the pintle and seat cleaned.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Raydar on July 26, 2015, 11:22:57 pm: When mine was doing that, I took off the throttle body and cleaned the main bore, throttle plate, and all the passages with brake cleaner.
Be careful. It's easy to squirt yourself in the eye with brake cleaner. Don't ask how I know this.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 27, 2015, 12:12:57 am: "You'll shot your eye out!" What movie?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on July 27, 2015, 09:06:57 am: Ralphy in "A Christmas Story".

You said PG came by to help. Do you mean you've driven it from his house to yours, now? How does it drive and feel?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: pgackerman on July 27, 2015, 09:30:46 am: Quote from: Fierofool on July 27, 2015, 09:06:57 am
Ralphy in "A Christmas Story".

You said PG came by to help. Do you mean you've driven it from his house to yours, now? How does it drive and feel?

Incredible.

...Except for stalling when put in Park.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 27, 2015, 10:09:27 pm: Looked at the Egr today, I pushed it up and down a few times and four out of five times, it didn't seat the same, the plunger shifted to one side or the other. I replaced it with a known working spare that I had laying around. The gasket is bad and I red copper sealed it. Its curing tonight and I'll try it tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully that will fix idle.
Things left to do:
Sort out the idle
2 cans seafoam, one for the tank, and one for Chinese water torture
Condition the vinyl and leather in the interior
Clean the glass
Clean the motor
Ron
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on July 28, 2015, 08:10:17 pm: Started up the warrior car today after the egr patch cured. It idles like normal, in fact, it idles too high now, so I'll reset the ecm and iac tomorrow after work, purchase and install a proper egr gasket and that should cover it.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 04, 2015, 12:50:52 pm: Got a report from the soldier that the car still won't hold an idle well.
Timing was checked and double checked when Fierofool came down to have a look.
While the egr and gasket where bad, along with a frozen iac, changed out and the condition significantly improved, I'm thinking now that it may be the pickup coil not providing a strong reference for the icm. Any other thoughts would be mucho helpful.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: TopNotch on August 04, 2015, 01:02:18 pm: Another possibility is a bad electrical ground. Add another ground from the engine block to the car's frame.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 04, 2015, 02:21:46 pm: Definitely wouldn't hurt! I'll pick one up.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 05, 2015, 05:34:52 pm: What about the ecm temp sender? Barry describes symptoms similar to that of a bad sender, he suggested it and he might be onto something, running rich, won't hold idle, or map? I guess i better dust off the ohm meter and get busy!
A bad ground would throw all these sensors off too....so I'll beef it up while I'm in there.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on August 05, 2015, 06:40:45 pm: I bought a new one and installed it just before we brought it down. It was the day we replaced the springs. I got there early and did that while waiting on Raydar and Ron.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 07, 2015, 11:41:56 pm: Barry brought the car by work today. I didn't have all my test equipment with me, but didn't need it to see a couple items that definitely need replaced.
The sounds from the front need attention. Barry and I traced the sounds to the upper a arm bushings. The bearings seemed tight.

The distributor shaft is good, but the magnet and pickup coil are toast.

He also reported that he found the source of the crazy sounds that had Pgackerman and I freaked out about.....it was the coolant purging air through the reservoir up front.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on August 09, 2015, 02:52:56 pm: Yesterday before the meeting I shipped a good distributor to Augusta. That should take care of the broken magnets and bad pickup coil. Hopefully it'll cure the idling problems, too.

As we discussed at the meeting, to address the problems Ron found with the front control arm bushings, a full set of poly bushings and extra silicone grease was ordered from The Fiero Store and shipped Second Day Air. Total cost charged to the club's debit card was $87.65.

Ron, I think we owe you more than a couple six packs of Yuengling or Bud for your willingness to tackle these issues.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 09, 2015, 03:13:27 pm: No problem. I'm having fun. It's a pleasure to work on such a beautiful car, and for a worthy cause. I'm trying to catch up to the rest of yous guys. 8)
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 14, 2015, 05:25:02 am: Barry came by Thursday after work.
Everything was successful. We changed out the dizzy, drained and flushed the coolant. Made a discovery......NO THERMOSTAT INSTALLED! That's why the temp guage wasn't working....because the stupid thing was never getting up to temp! We installed the t-stat that was in the box after the coolant refill. So, Barry is going to enjoy much better fuel consumption, better throttle response, more power. The cooling fan also cycled on and that was a welcome sound.
The coolant guage now works (because of the t-stat)
We also replaced the air filter (it was totally clogged...couldn't see any light through the element at all!), so that will help.
Still couldn't set timing where it belonged. Had to advance it to 12° to get it to idle.
So either the timing ring has slipped, or it's got a hot cam installed. Still has a heavy lope to the idle.
Still have the suspension left to do.

Idle transitions from park to gear are still iffy. Idle is much smoother now and the exhaust smells much better....more normal.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Raydar on August 14, 2015, 11:48:59 am: Quote from: f85gtron on August 14, 2015, 05:25:02 am
...
Still couldn't set timing where it belonged. Had to advance it to 12° to get it to idle.
So either the timing ring has slipped, or it's got a hot cam installed
...

I would be inclined to set it by ear. Do it with the cheapest gas you can find (so that the chance of finding something that will have less octane will be minimized.)
Just advance it two degrees at a time, until it pings, and then back off, slightly, until it doesn't. Do it with the A/C on, since that will tend to make it ping worse, if it's going to.
My 4.9 actually has about ten degrees more advance than the light says that it should. (Runs like kwrap when it's set by the timing marks.) I suspect that my ring has slipped, as well, but as long as it doesn't hurt anything, I'm not going to bother with it.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 15, 2015, 12:23:04 pm: We're making strides in this car. When I asked Barry for feedback on the work we did Thursday, I received this response:
"Big difference, throttle response is 10 times better, and has the power it should have."
I think we're heading in the right direction. When I get the car back to replace the bushings, I'll check #1 cyl against the timing mark to double check the balancer ring and Re-time if necessary.
Anything else I should look for before turning him loose once and for all?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Fierofool on August 15, 2015, 01:23:31 pm: He still hasn't registered on the forum. Hope we don't loose him except when he has a problem.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on August 15, 2015, 01:43:33 pm: I'll work on getting him on the forum. I don't think we'll lose him. He's really getting into the car and so are his motorcycle club brothers. He's talking about putting together some kind of joint get together. Sounds cool to me.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on June 25, 2016, 01:49:50 pm: UPDATE:
Pgackerman and I visited the warrior and warrior Fiero. Damn, that's a beautiful car!
Anyways, turns out the pickup coil was the problem. Berry, the warrior, changed out the ignition module, the ignition coil, cap, rotor button, gapped spark plugs, new im to coil harness......everything a true fiero expert would change out to fix the problem.
We tested the pickup coil and sure enough, infinite resistance, so we swapped it out with a good coil and VROOM!
Had some trouble setting timing. My suspicion is that the harmonic balancer may have slipped, so after a couple attempts, we set it by ear conservatively and Barry can advance it more to where he feels comfortable with it.
The car feels great and fired right up. The stronger spark really makes a difference!
~~Ron~~ Doug (inside joke)
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: Roger on June 25, 2016, 07:23:24 pm: Pickup coil bad? Good catch.
On one of the RFTH's a member had an ignition issue. I carry an ohmmeter and checked his coil. It checked good at 800 ohms. After having to tow the car the issue was found to be the pickup coil.
Apparently, heat issues with these things are a tricky thing to catch.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: GTRS Fiero on June 05, 2018, 10:41:54 pm: Quote from: f85gtron on August 07, 2015, 11:41:56 pm
He also reported that he found the source of the crazy sounds that had Pgackerman and I freaked out about.....it was the coolant purging air through the reservoir up front.

Did it sound like a machine gun firing?
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: f85gtron on June 06, 2018, 05:28:32 am: Pretty close. I remember turning and looking at pgackerman, only to find that he was already looking at me and his hand was on the door handle to bail out, so I obliged and bailed too. Given the unfamiliarity of both the car and the noise noise, his suggestion to run seemed like good form. All I remember is that the noise didn't belong there.
Title: Re: Warrior project car won't hold idle well
Post by: GTRS Fiero on June 06, 2018, 07:29:28 am: It's very startling, even the second and third time, partly because it's unexpected. I had a Mustang make a similar sound, when the freon vented to the exhaust manifold.