Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => General Fiero Discussion => Topic started by: f85gtron on May 26, 2016, 05:09:07 pm

Title: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on May 26, 2016, 05:09:07 pm: I lost my dizzy and I'm not ashamed.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Raydar on May 26, 2016, 05:24:04 pm: Me likey!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Roger on May 26, 2016, 06:33:17 pm: Oooh!!! Dats purdy! Me want one too!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Karidan on May 26, 2016, 10:18:37 pm: Whoa looks great!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on June 30, 2016, 05:35:12 am: Update:
IT'S ALIVE!!!! MUWAHAHAHA

Used 60° reference angle, 70° max advance, -20 max retard in a dizzy .bin and it works!
Ron
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on July 08, 2016, 07:15:36 am: Proof
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: pgackerman on July 08, 2016, 05:35:50 pm: Nice build-up. Will it start? Will it not? Low battery.

It's ALIVEEEEEE!!!!!!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on September 29, 2016, 06:55:51 pm: Very nice! I see you removed the EGR, also. That's an interesting location for the coil pack. I guess since the ignition coil works OK next to the exhaust, that's a good location. Visually, it looks good there, so why isn't this more common?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: TopNotch on September 29, 2016, 08:33:33 pm: The club sells a digital EGR kit, so when you upgrade your ECM, and add the coil packs, you can still have an EGR.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on September 29, 2016, 09:03:22 pm: He got one, already.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on September 30, 2016, 09:14:50 am: I haven't got one yet. I'll add the egr back after the tune is done, then tune for egr.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on September 30, 2016, 09:25:10 am: I was referring to tshark.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 23, 2016, 09:02:05 am: Is this on the road, yet? I'm curious about the heat aspect.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on October 23, 2016, 11:14:03 am: Yeah. I ran it at run for the hills, back and forth for a tdy assignment in Memphis, tn in 100+ degree heat 5 trips. Seems to be holding up well. Notice that I've kept the heat shield installed. I think that's key to heat. The only real heat that it sees is the heat from the head and that is mitigated by the coolant that runs through it @ 200°F. Engine runs smooth and strong past redline. Have to be careful!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 23, 2016, 01:36:23 pm: Um, past redline? No governor? How fast were you going? The 2.8 and 3.4 have the same redline, right? Does the tach read correctly? I drove a 3.4/4T60 that had some sort of issue that caused the tach to be off.

By comparison, where did the coil pack sit on the 3.4, from the factory?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on October 23, 2016, 03:08:48 pm: This is my engine during conversion. You can see the coil pack at the upper left. I think it's in the original position. It won't fit in that position on the Fiero, unless the battery is relocated. Ron's location or even mounted on the trunk wall works very well in the Fiero.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 23, 2016, 03:21:53 pm: Probably a lot less heat in the stock location, because the Y-pipe, or crossover pipe or whatever it is isn't under it, and the manifold is going the other way.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on October 23, 2016, 08:12:30 pm: Stock location is preferred, but as Fierofool mentioned, it wasn't available. There's a mount that the mini vans had that mounts the coils over the valve cover, but then it hides the beautiful valve covers!
Redline in the $24a programming is set at 6013rpm from the factory. I was using bawx $88 set at 6300 rpm from the factory for the 3100 motor. I'm going to change it back to 6k because I'm nervous it'll spin a bearing.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 23, 2016, 08:29:53 pm: Good to know about the $88 RPM.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on November 28, 2016, 06:05:31 pm: Quote from: f85gtron on September 30, 2016, 09:14:50 am
I haven't got one yet. I'll add the egr back after the tune is done, then tune for egr.

Something just occurred to me. Will the EGR still fit? Is it close to the coil pack?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on December 09, 2016, 12:54:42 pm: I dunno. I guess a pic is in order!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 28, 2017, 08:28:57 pm: EGR in? Pic?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on March 01, 2017, 06:51:04 am: No egr yet and no pic. I keep forgetting!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 07, 2017, 07:38:27 pm: Quote from: Fierofool on October 23, 2016, 03:08:48 pm
This is my engine during conversion. You can see the coil pack at the upper left. I think it's in the original position. It won't fit in that position on the Fiero, unless the battery is relocated. Ron's location or even mounted on the trunk wall works very well in the Fiero.

What is that tube along the bottom? Is there a way to keep your EGR looking nice? Did you clean up the block, or install like this? Is the EGR on a stalk? Is the flywheel normally that rusty?

Do you still have an ICM?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on March 07, 2017, 09:49:39 pm: I don't know what the tube is for. That engine is the way it's dressed out in the Camaro. I only used the block, heads and oil pan and transferred everything else from my 2.8 onto it. It now looks lika a stock Fiero V6, sitting in my 87. There are several versions of that EGR. Some have covers encasing them.

This engine sat in a wrecked car for about 3 or 4 months before I bought it, so the flywheel probably accumulated a little rust, but generally, they are rusty in the areas you see.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Raydar on March 07, 2017, 10:37:52 pm: Are you asking about the tube that wraps around the end of the engine?
It looks a lot like the air injection tubes that I have seen on other engines. It's plumbed into the exhaust manifolds. It's used to blow fresh air into the manifolds, in order to help burn excessive unburned fuel that may still be in there, when the engine is cold.

Aka "smog pump lines".

Just a S.W.A.G.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 07, 2017, 11:18:56 pm: Quote from: Fierofool on March 07, 2017, 09:49:39 pm

This engine sat in a wrecked car for about 3 or 4 months before I bought it, so the flywheel probably accumulated a little rust, but generally, they are rusty in the areas you see.

Does your engine look that rusty, now?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on March 07, 2017, 11:49:06 pm: No.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2017, 07:53:00 am: If you convert to DIS, what happens to the ICM? Or is there something else equally unreliable that takes its place?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on March 08, 2017, 08:22:36 am: The 3.4 has a crankshaft position sensor in the side of the block closest to the trunk. It's roughly in the side area of the #3 cylinder wall next to the freeze plug. That sensor transmits to the ECM. The ICM is mounted underneath the coilpack. It's an entirely different style than what we use. The 7730 ECM takes care of timing adjustments based on crankshaft sensor input.

I left the crankshaft sensor in mine rather than stop it up with an expandable freeze plug as some folks do. I also left the low oil sensor in the side of the pan. I did this to eliminate leaks, and so that I would have the sensors already in place because I had hoped to convert to DIS at some time. I have everything for the conversion except a knock sensor and the oil pump drive that replaces the distributor.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2017, 08:27:02 am: So, with DIS, you still have an ICM.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on March 08, 2017, 08:45:02 am: Yes. It tells the correct coil set when to fire. Trivia Item: Coilpacks fire two cylinders at one time. One of them is at BDC and the other is at TDC.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Raydar on March 08, 2017, 01:48:18 pm: I thought that one plug was at the top of the compression stroke (TDC) and the other was at the top of the exhaust stroke (TDC).
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on March 08, 2017, 03:14:30 pm: OOPS! You're right. I've always thought that method reduced the energy that was going to the one plug that really needed it but I guess they just upped it a little to compensate. .
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: TopNotch on March 08, 2017, 04:59:40 pm: In a waste spark ignition system, the two spark plugs on the same coil are actually in series. That means that one must fire in order for the other one to fire. The spark plug in the cylinder that's on the exhaust stroke faces much less dielectric resistance, and fires once the voltage reaches only about 2 or 3 kV. So if the system generates 40kV of spark, that leaves 37 or 38kV to fire the plug in the cylinder that's on the compression stroke. So very little electricity is wasted.
Having only 1/2 as many spark coils as cylinders reduces bulk and weight, so it's a good system.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2017, 06:18:30 pm: So, if there exists unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber, it may ignite going out the exhaust?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 11, 2017, 08:50:48 pm: Well, f85gtron, who will have their EGR completed in their RUNNING Fiero first? Mine doesn't have the cradle in, yet.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on March 11, 2017, 11:15:46 pm: I'll go ahead and concede now. I might go turbo first...
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 12, 2017, 12:30:01 am: :(
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on March 12, 2017, 01:39:07 pm: Quote from: tshark on March 12, 2017, 12:30:01 am
:(

If it's a competition, I'm open to it as long as it's friendly and there are clear ground rules that we both agree on.
1) starting now,
2) must be 7730 controlled, three solenoid type egr,
3) must be complete in installation and working before considered complete to win.
A) proof will be in the form of a data log or pulling the wiring and throwing a code as evidenced by video.
4) programming the 7730 can be done by whatever source you choose (mail order tune or tuned personally).

Agreed?
Any body else like to join in?
Pgackerman?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 12, 2017, 01:49:55 pm: A friendly competition. Just meant to encourage progress.

I'm good with all, except A. I have no way to pull a data log. I figured you'd post a pic, the same as I would. I don't post on youtube. I don't know how I'll even know, my own self, since mine is being done. I can pass along the info I get.

Mine is a 7730 ECU, with the 3-solenoid type EGR.

It's just a bragging rights competition. The more, the merrier. Actually, I was hoping you'd finish first, so I could see how it went, aesthetically. Not that I want work on mine to slow down.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on March 12, 2017, 04:16:55 pm: Ok. So strike out A and go with gentleman's assumption works for me.
ready......set.......GO!

Pgackerman, you'd better shake a leg! We've got the jump on you!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 12, 2017, 04:19:15 pm: You've got a jump. You're starting with a running car! LOL! I challenged.

C'mon, PG!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 07, 2017, 05:47:09 pm: Pgackerman?

Any progress, Ron?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on April 08, 2017, 06:51:35 am: None on my end. Tdy in Memphis AGAIN :( . No time as of yet and I'm getting discouraged.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 08, 2017, 06:56:44 am: We're here to help prevent you from getting discouraged.

You're so close. Not that a Fiero project is ever done, but this particular part is almost done.

I'm a bit frustrated, too, but I will persevere!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 10, 2017, 08:54:11 pm: Do you still have an ICM under the coil pack? Is it the same one as stock?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on April 10, 2017, 09:44:44 pm: The base for the coil cartridges is the icm. It wires right up to the existing fiero wiring. You just have to advance the spark reference to 60° to tell the ecm where to calculate the spark hits.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 10, 2017, 09:47:07 pm: The mounting plate with 3 bolts is the ICM?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on April 10, 2017, 09:52:35 pm: Yup
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 10, 2017, 09:55:21 pm: Holy cow! I hope they don't fail often. I don't want to have to carry 2 of those around.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on April 11, 2017, 07:02:42 am: My understanding is that the dis icm failure rate is pretty low.
It mostly outlasts the wiring around it. Here's a diagnostic pdf for it. Pretty simple.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 24, 2017, 06:47:33 pm: How is yours coming? Mine started, no codes, but we'll see after it goes into closed loop and gets driven. The car is still on jackstands, with no wheels on it.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on April 24, 2017, 07:06:29 pm: Unless it's supported by the suspension on the rear, DO NOT by any means put it into gear and let the axles spin. You can destroy the CV joint, especially the one on the driver's side. The drop in the suspension puts a sharp angle on the short drive axle and the CV joint can be damaged. This holds true for the manual transmission cars, as well. Due to the shorter right side axle of the automatic, it might also be damaged.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 24, 2017, 07:09:20 pm: Yeah, I saw pictures somewhere of that having happened to someone.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on April 24, 2017, 07:23:03 pm: Actually, the correct name is the Tri-pot. The inboard joint.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 11, 2017, 08:01:26 pm: I was just watching your video again. Did you fix the miss?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on August 11, 2017, 09:21:00 pm: Yes. All fixed. It was the dwell that was too long.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 11, 2017, 09:42:54 pm: Glad to hear it's fixed.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 14, 2017, 10:55:19 pm: Quote from: f85gtron on March 12, 2017, 01:39:07 pm
If it's a competition, I'm open to it as long as it's friendly and there are clear ground rules that we both agree on.
1) starting now,
2) must be 7730 controlled, three solenoid type egr,
3) must be complete in installation and working before considered complete to win.
4) programming the 7730 can be done by whatever source you choose (mail order tune or tuned personally).

I don't know if I should consider mine a success or a failure, but it's running.

Here's a pic:

It's controlled by a 7730, is the 3-solenoid EGR
It's complete in installation and the EGR is working
Ryan G programmed the 7730
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on October 15, 2017, 10:45:41 am: Test it by unplugging the egr and see if it throws a code.
The reason I say this is Ryan has a tenancy to un-flag some parameters in his tunes rather than tune it in (like the shift light) and/or set the coolant temp to act so high, it never activates.
Your setup looks real nice!
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on October 15, 2017, 02:53:59 pm: Thanks.

Ryan said it's programmed for a digital EGR.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on July 14, 2018, 02:48:10 pm: Quote from: f85gtron on May 26, 2016, 05:09:07 pm
I lost my dizzy and I'm not ashamed.

For anyone who wants to go DIS in the future, mounting the coil pack on the block is the way to go. It saves a LOT of trouble. It is VERY important that the coil pack shares a common ground with the engine. Mounting the coil pack on the trunk wall ends up being a bad idea. Mount the coil pack securely to the engine block, as designed, ensuring that there is a good ground connection between the two.

I'm sure someone can fill in details of why.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 04, 2018, 11:24:33 am: Mine works! More than 600 miles, EGR working, no codes.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 05, 2018, 09:24:17 pm: How does the neck on your plenum clear the FPR. It looks as if you have about 50mm, almost to the runners.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on August 12, 2018, 12:34:32 pm: When I did the dawg mod, I left the egr port in place and used a 90* elbow to attach the pcv valve hose to clear the fpr. I don’t think I have a pic of it.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 01, 2019, 08:00:58 pm: Does your harmonic balancer matter, anymore? If the ring slips, nothing happens?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: Fierofool on February 01, 2019, 09:20:38 pm: It probably doesn't matter unless it slips back against the oil pan or timing chain cover.
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: GTRS Fiero on July 21, 2019, 08:27:27 am: F85gtron, did you ever get your EGR working?
Title: Re: LOOK MA! NO DIZZY!
Post by: f85gtron on July 28, 2019, 06:23:25 am: No. Still blocked off. I never purchased an egr. I suppose I should do that.