Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 09:39:55 pm
Last week I was running the car in the driveway and it died. I knew it was low on fuel so I put 5 gallons in it and it started right up but the fuel gauge showed 3/4 full. After filling it full at Costco today it now reads way above full. I hit every bump in the road hoping to shake the float loose but no change. I replaced the fuel pump several months back and the hanger and the float assembly seemed fine.
The engine dies if I'm at idle and the cooling fan comes on. Back when I first got the car running the cooling fan motor was going out unbeknownst to me. The first time the fan turned on it drew so much it killed the alternator. No fuses blew and no wires were warm.
I replaced the alternator with a CS-130 upgraded unit that has threads on Pennocks and The Ogre's site. I also installed a new cooling fan motor. Even though the fan blade seems to turn freely it is still drawing a massive amount of juice. It will sit and idle fine in the driveway with the fan running and cycling off like it is supposed to. Only when out on the road and at an idle, like waiting for a traffic signal does it kill it.
In 20 miles of driving it today it died probably 20 times. It does start right back up though. I can see the charge drop on the ammeter when the fan comes on and the charge continues to drop quickly and it dies. I verified that the only time the engine dies is after the fan comes on and the voltage drops.
The alternator charges fine and the battery tests good. I'll be checking that fan in the morning.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 26, 2019, 09:47:09 pm
Certainly, it is a good idea to test for load the fan draws, separate from the car. If not the coolant fan draws, it's the wiring.
Supposedly, the fan rarely comes on. What happens if you unplug the fan, and go for a drive, with the HVAC off? Does the motor still die? Voltage drop? Overheat?
Post by: Fierofool on August 26, 2019, 09:56:01 pm
Just as a WAG, unplug the engine bay fan in the right rear fender. That fan also runs every time the cooling fan comes on. Critters could have gotten into it, preventing it from turning, or they could have built nests in the ductwork.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 26, 2019, 09:58:04 pm
Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 09:59:14 pm
I hope it is not a wiring issue as that would put the car in storage mode. I've got a build starting in September that will put a chunk of money in my pocket when completed. I'm hoping to complete it within 60 days of start.
Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 10:01:11 pm
Forgot about that fan. It's about useless, anyway.
The upgraded alternator doesn't require the fan. I only hooked it back up out of habit. I will disable it tomorrow and make a short run.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 26, 2019, 10:02:47 pm
Your Fiero should not be kicking on the fan so often, unless it's much hotter there.
Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 10:04:27 pm
There aren't any roads I can control. I'm right in the city. LOL
Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 10:08:07 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 26, 2019, 10:11:51 pm
I'm in the city, too, but 20 minutes' driving during midday can get me out of the city.
Post by: MikeMac on August 26, 2019, 10:34:31 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 26, 2019, 10:37:33 pm
Mine runs hot when moving.
Post by: scottb on August 27, 2019, 12:20:07 pm
Post by: MikeMac on August 27, 2019, 06:05:51 pm
I'm going to put it in storage. I don't have time to sort the fuel gauge issue before the RFTH.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 27, 2019, 06:14:14 pm
I have a suspicion that the dying issue can be fixed fairly easily.
Post by: MikeMac on August 27, 2019, 06:26:40 pm
Post by: MikeMac on August 27, 2019, 06:28:30 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 27, 2019, 06:31:08 pm
I have the opposite problem from you. I have a house to build, and a car to renovate.
Post by: MikeMac on August 27, 2019, 06:39:00 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 27, 2019, 06:41:05 pm
Post by: scottb on August 27, 2019, 07:15:58 pm
Post by: MikeMac on August 27, 2019, 07:54:02 pm
Hints..It has 3 radiators, 2 water pumps, water cooled alternator, 360 Hp V8 and all wheel drive.
Post by: scottb on August 27, 2019, 07:58:40 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 27, 2019, 08:54:51 pm
Post by: Fierofool on August 27, 2019, 09:09:17 pm
I'm not taking it on a long trip with an inop fuel gauge. I have enough bad luck as it is. LOL
On a RFTH trip to Asheville, Don and I got exactly the same fuel mileage. We use the 150 mile rule for unsure fuel gauges. All the fuel stops on the run are based upon that rule. This works well for the cars with bigger engines, too.
Post by: MikeMac on August 29, 2019, 11:34:41 pm
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/039384.html
Post by: Fierofool on August 29, 2019, 11:47:25 pm
Post by: MikeMac on August 30, 2019, 12:03:58 am
The pic is from Dodge runner not my engine
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 30, 2019, 07:23:28 am
Post by: Fierofool on August 30, 2019, 09:35:04 am
Regarding the overheating issue: Don may have installed the low temp fan switch that will cause the fan to come on much earlier. Is your gauge accurate? It should sit at the bottom of the thermometer symbol with ignition off.
Post by: TopNotch on August 30, 2019, 09:59:49 am
Post by: MikeMac on August 30, 2019, 11:33:55 am
Mike, I see that now in Dodgerunner's picture. The bracket utilizes the alternator bolt that's normally the adjustment bolt. Is by chance the pulley smaller on the CS alternator you got?
Regarding the overheating issue: Don may have installed the low temp fan switch that will cause the fan to come on much earlier. Is your gauge accurate? It should sit at the bottom of the thermometer symbol with ignition off.
There is a power pulley on the engine so I had to use a smaller belt than what Dodgerunner recommends. I picked up a new belt under warranty and will install it this afternoon.
I haven't had any overheating issues. In Don's notes he says he put in the low temp switch which explains why the fan runs so often. The temp gauge seems to be accurate.
Post by: Fierofool on August 30, 2019, 12:47:44 pm
A power pulley (drive pulley) on the crank is smaller. That means that everything it drives (driven pulley) is running slower. Alternator, waterpump, but maybe not the AC compressor.
Because the accessories are running slower, they arent generating or pumping as much as they should. Water isn't circulating as fast as would be normal. Voltage is produced at a lower voltage.
When an electrical load is put on the alternator, like the cooling fan, the alternator struggles to produce enough voltage, lagging the motor. If it's a high amp alternator, the drag on it would be even greater.
Post by: TopNotch on August 30, 2019, 01:02:41 pm
The moral of the story is, if you have a loud sound system in your car that draws a lot of amps, you should have a high amp rated alternator.
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 30, 2019, 06:01:32 pm
Someone tell me if my theory is right or wrong.
A power pulley (drive pulley) on the crank is smaller. That means that everything it drives (driven pulley) is running slower. Alternator, waterpump, but maybe not the AC compressor.
Because the accessories are running slower, they arent generating or pumping as much as they should. Water isn't circulating as fast as would be normal. Voltage is produced at a lower voltage.
When an electrical load is put on the alternator, like the cooling fan, the alternator struggles to produce enough voltage, lagging the motor. If it's a high amp alternator, the drag on it would be even greater.
The part about voltage being produced at a lower voltage...is not making sense to me. RPM?
The power pulley is smaller, and yes, the driven accessories run more slowly.
At idle, the alternator shows low volts, but part of this is that the wrong gauge of wire was used. Anyway, if you have a lot of power draw, you cannot use the power pulley.
Post by: MikeMac on August 30, 2019, 09:21:35 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on August 30, 2019, 09:24:36 pm
Post by: Raydar on September 01, 2019, 10:51:11 pm
I had an underdrive pulley on my 3.4. At night, or with the wipers on, it always showed a drain, as opposed to a charge, when idling.
I changed the chip programming, to bump up the idle speed.
The fuel sender is supposed to read zero ohms at empty and 90 ohms at full.
If your fuel gauge reads high (or offscale) it may be due to tarnish on the resistor wires or wiper, causing a high resistance. You might run some Seafoam through the tank to see if that helps.
When I had a similar issue, I didn't know about Seafoam. I ended up rebuilding my sending unit.
Post by: MikeMac on September 04, 2019, 08:08:31 pm
The issue I had several months back has returned. It would start and the die fairly quickly. I replaced the temperature sensor and it went away immediately. I guess the sensor could have failed this quickly. The quality of parts have really gone down the last 5 to 10 years.
I drove the car up to my house in Ball Ground and it ran great going up the interstate. The starting and idle issue are really the problem right now. And RFTH is what 2 weeks away?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on September 04, 2019, 08:12:41 pm
I agree about the quality of parts being terrible.
I think my CTS is also bad.
Post by: NoobKevin on September 04, 2019, 09:38:08 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on September 04, 2019, 09:42:15 pm
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 21, 2021, 10:41:40 am