Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => Expert Tech Advice => Topic started by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:04:43 pm

Title: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:04:43 pm: got it running but ideling very high any thoughts . ive been checking for vac leaks

could bad injector o rings cause this
Title: Re: ro 3.4 swap runs bit 2000k idel ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 06:07:50 pm: Look in the July 2019 newsletter. It covers much of this.

The tach filter is suspect for the tach filter. EGR for the idle.

Any codes set?
Title: Re: ro 3.4 swap runs bit 2000k idel ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:10:09 pm: no codes ,i plugged the egr metal vac tube no change
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:12:04 pm: could my timing need adjusted ? at the dizzy ?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Fierofool on March 08, 2020, 06:45:24 pm: You could still have a vacuum leak in the EGR valve or its vacuum line. Also check the 2 vacuum lines that plug onto the bottom of the throttle body. Did you plug the EGR tube at the intake or at the valve?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:53:27 pm: Everything seems to be connected up under throttle body and under the intake plenum. I disconnected the EGR tube from the EGR valve itself and plugged it up.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:54:48 pm: now it's not wanting to start at all unless I throw a little starting fluid in there and then it will quickly die out again.I think this may be because I'm not getting enough vacuum to open the fuel pressure regulator?at the fuel check valve on the fuel rail when I push in the needle I get a good squirt of fuel and I can hear the fuel pump running.
Title: Re: ro 3.4 swap runs bit 2000k idel ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 06:57:28 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:05:23 pm
what is a tac filter ?

The tachometer filter sits by the ignition coil, and is supposed to keep the needle steady.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:57:59 pm: I have a video of it running I don't know if I'm able to attach videos to any comments on here but I can hear a vacuum leak if I can find out how to post it maybe that will help
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 06:59:11 pm: What did you do since it started last?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 07:00:53 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 06:53:27 pm
I disconnected the EGR tube from the EGR valve itself and plugged it up.

Did you plug both the valve and the tube?

The tube could be leaking at the intake.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:02:53 pm: I plugged the metal tube and I plugged the little black vacuum line on the top of the EGR valve.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:03:39 pm: In the video I took I can hear a vacuum leak unless it's just coming from the throttle body.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 07:05:05 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:02:53 pm
I plugged the metal tube and I plugged the little black vacuum line on the top of the EGR valve.

It could still be leaking at the intake. Use a 3-foot length of garden hose to find the leak.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:06:17 pm: I had the car running looking for vacuum leaks and it just died out. To answer your question a few post back
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:07:19 pm: Yeah I'll try to get back out there tomorrow night and take a look at the intake side of the metal EGR tube and see if it's cracked or anyting
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:07:51 pm: I'll head back out there tomorrow night and try to see if there is a crack in the metal EGR tube on the intake side
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 07:08:55 pm: Is it flooding when it doesn't start? You need to check the injectors.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 08, 2020, 07:10:24 pm: No I don't think it's flooding because it will start back up if I use starting fluid I think it's starving for fuel because it's getting too much air and or the fact that I have a vacuum leak isn't allowing the fuel pressure regulator to operate properly and not allowing fuel to get to the injectors
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 09:16:38 pm: Since you have fuel pressure at the Schrader valve, you should have enough pressure. Since it isn't flooding, and doesn't seem to be getting enough fuel, you likely either have clogged injectors, or the fuel injector fuses are blown. The fuel injectors are directly on yhe fuel rail. Since you have pressure in the fuel rail, vacuum isn't preventing fuel from getting to the injectors. You should have at least 43 PSI. All the details are in the July 2019-ish newsletters.

Is the throttle plate opening and closing correctly? Did you get the IAC tube secured?

BTW, if your engine is really running at 2,000K RPM, there are probably bits all over. Likely either 2K RPM or 2,000 RPM.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: TopNotch on March 08, 2020, 09:46:37 pm: With the engine cold, start the car and try wiggling the EGR tube before it has a chance to get hot. If you hear a changing hiss as you wiggle it, your EGR tube is cracked, and is the source of a vacuum leak.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Fierofool on March 08, 2020, 10:05:04 pm: I agree with what GTRS said about having pressure at the rail but it's not getting through the injectors. There are 2 injector fuses. Marked INJ 1 and INJ 2. A bad MAP sensor can cause this condition, too. The vacuum line from the MAP going underneath the intake is the one that controls the pressure regulator.

The EGR tube will be your likely vacuum leak. I've used a hand held propane torch to check for leaks when the engine is running. The hose GTRS mentioned is a good method. The vacuum you hear may be coming from the throttle body, itself. It does have a loud hiss.

To test for leaks with a propane torch, remove the tip of the torch. Then slide a piece of rubber hose over the tube. You can turn on the tank at a very low setting without igniting it and pass the end of the hose over any areas suspected of a vacuum leak. The engine will speed up when you hit the spot. There is very little chance of any fire due to the low flow of propane.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 08, 2020, 10:15:43 pm: When testing my MAP sensor, I ended up unplugging it. Most of the stuff should be covered in the March 2019 newsletter.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 09, 2020, 09:03:57 am: Awesome thanks for the tips .I will give this a try after work and report back .

So glad to have all the help! Thanks
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 09, 2020, 09:13:37 am: PS. My tach filter is missing . Hope I can find it . Other wise I'll get one from Rodney .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 09, 2020, 10:28:03 am: Does anybody know the AC Delco part number for the tach filter?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: TopNotch on March 09, 2020, 10:59:37 am: I don't know the part number, but you can build your own...

You should be able to find these components at an electronic parts store, such as Fry's.
In the good old days, Radio Shack would be the place to get the parts.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 09, 2020, 11:21:04 am: Awesome !
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Fierofool on March 09, 2020, 12:30:49 pm: The tach filter is kinda hidden down between the coil and the end of the valve cover. It's usually a gray cylinder about the size of a TNT firecracker. It has 2 wires and a white connector on the wires.

I have a couple of spare filters. If you want to come to the meeting Saturday, I'll bring one if you'll just let me know.

I just thought of another place where you may have a vacuum leak or a misfeed. The EGR solenoid has a small looped tubing. That tubing or the rubber sleeve on the end can fail. Usually the rubber tubing rots and becomes porous. I replace the whole tube with a piece of vinyl tubing scavenged from a fish tank aerator.

A manufactured vacuum misfeed can be created by swapping the 2 hoses from the end of the EGR solenoid, either at the solenoid or at the rubber connector where they go to the lines on the trunk wall. One of those lines goes to a ported connection on the evap canister. The other isn't ported, so it's open all the time. If connections are reversed, you can be pulling vacuum on an open line.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 09, 2020, 12:55:57 pm: yeah I know what vacuum lines you speak of that go to the rear of the trunk and then turning the hard lines there two different sizes I have the big one in the big one and a little one in the little one. And I know what the tach filter looks like it's just missing completely. So for the time being until one arrives or I find mine I'm just going to bypass it to get some kind of tach going.my EGR valve only has one black plastic line going to the top of it and then the big half inch metal tube .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Fierofool on March 12, 2020, 01:44:14 pm: It's the EGR solenoid that has the small plastic loop. That's one that I've often found to be a problem, either with a crack in the plastic tubing, or in the rubber sleeve where it connects to the electric control.

Do you have a MightyVac? You can test the vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator by pulling a few inches of vacuum and see if it holds. Same with the vacuum line to the EGR valve. Some of the other lines are open at the opposite end so that test won't work.

Are you close enough to us to make the meeting Saturday? I'll bring a tach filter if you are. If not, I can mail it to you. Did you manage to get the car restarted?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 14, 2020, 08:44:46 am: There is a short tube (maybe an inch long), that likes to get a hairline crack. This particular tube is an elbow of sorts.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 16, 2020, 08:46:32 pm: I'm in Cincinnati so I don't know where the meat is. But it's likely not close to me. I just put a jumper wire where the tach filter supposed to go in the tach is now working!I but I am interested in getting the filter from you ! also found my vacuum leak ..there is a half inch tube that comes out of the lower intake manifold and goes into the back of the throttle body that I neglected to catch while reassembling everything.iy no longer idles at 2.5 k rpms . Now it will start and idle around 1200 RPMs but it will sputter as it starts and then smooths out and then die and then it is hard to start. And will continue to do the same thing sputter up until it runs smooth then die. it doesn't like slowly die down either it just quits really fast.I am getting a lot of gassy smell is coming from the exhust as if it's running very rich I'm also getting white vapor coming out of the throttle body once it stalls out.. not sure what to check next. Maybe I have an injector stuck open?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 16, 2020, 08:58:34 pm: That half-inch tube should be for the IAC. Yes, without that, high idle.

Lots of fuel, so running rich. Injector stuck open. Check the cold start injector first.

Does the white vapor go up, or down?

So, the intake tube is off?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: Sandman87 on March 16, 2020, 09:01:59 pm: Yeah I have the intake tube off at the moment. The vapor coming from a throttle body slowly rises up out of the throttle body.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 16, 2020, 09:08:22 pm: No white vapor from the exhaust, right?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 16, 2020, 09:09:48 pm: Not that I can tell but there is a fair amount of smoke coming from the exhaust which I can only assume is unspent fuel. It does not smell like oil burning. It's more of that black gray smoke and smells heavily of gasoline
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 16, 2020, 09:12:33 pm: On a side note this engine has only run for a total of 2 or 3 minutes in the last year and a half so I can expect some smoke from the exhaust until I get up to operating temperature. Also obviously as I'm sure you know with a 3.4 swap it was stripped all the way down to the long block and was reassembled using assembly lube and all that. So until I get a hot enough to burn all that off it's hard to tell what the true color of the smoke coming from the exhaust is. But it appears to me to just be a very rich condition creating smoke
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 16, 2020, 10:39:00 pm: Ok. Is the timing set correctly?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 07:48:41 am: I'll have to buy a timing light to be sure . But I assume so .I've adjusted the dizzy while it's runs to make it smooth .but it doesn't run long enough for me to set it perfect
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 17, 2020, 09:20:09 am: Just some thoughts:

If a car will start and immediately die, the pump is priming but a relay is possibly bad and the engine hasn't developed enough oil pressure to run on the oil pressure switch.
If a car starts but revs up just before dieing, it's running out of fuel. As it does, the air ratio is increasing, causing the engine to rev. A possibility is a clogged fuel filter. It sometimes happens to new filters if the car has sat for a long time.
A Fiero will often run rich if the Coolant Temperature Sensor located just above the water pump, has failed.
Hard starting and black smoke could indicate a leaky injector or cold start valve. Any other color smoke won't be fuel related.
Try inserting a jumper into the ALDL, then turn on the ignition and try to start the car. If it won't fire or run, then the timing isn't set correctly. You probably already know, but be sure the ignition is OFF when installing or removing the jumper.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 09:59:50 am: Okay so that raises a bit of concern about the temperature sensor as the gauge inside the car is not working neither is the fuel gauge I do have a brand-new temperature sensor I just have not put it in yet. I've started a parts list in my Amazon account I will add a fuel filter to the list I have a timing light in there as well anything else you suggest. Also the check engine light bulb I think is blown out because I do not get a check engine light when the key is just in the accessory or run position.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 10:01:16 am: How do I go about jumping the aldl I don't know anything about that
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 17, 2020, 10:30:39 am: The temperature sensor for the gauge has no effect on the engine. That's the sensor that's located on the cylinder head, near the ignition coil and tach filter. It has a round plastic head with a slot in the side. Many parts stores sell the Coolant Temperature Sensor with a new harness end, calling it the new design sensor. That information is incorrect. The temperature sensor provides information to the gauge and the temperature light. That's all.

The other Coolant Temperature Sensor has an oval plastic head. It's located below the thermostat housing, and screws into the end of the lower intake manifold. It's positioned horizontally just above the water pump and timing cover. That sensor information is read by the ECM and is used by the ECM to adjust the fuel mixture. When they fail, they almost always fail to the cold side which would cause the ECM to increase the pulse width of the injectors resulting in a rich fuel mixture.

The ALDL is located behind the cigar lighter trim plate. When the plate is removed you can see the ALDL in the right side. Looking at the ALDL, you will want to jumper the two terminals on the lower passenger side of the ALDL. A paper clip straightened then bent back into a U works great. Your check engine light will come on and start flashing when the ignition is turned on. ALWAYS have the ignition OFF when inserting or removing the jumper to avoid possible damage to the ECM.

To properly set the timing, the engine should be at operating temp and you'll need a timing light to adjust the timing to about 10*.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 12:14:30 pm: Ok I'll try this when I get a chance to get back out there .thanks for all the help everyone .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 04:59:18 pm: where does this go

running smooth after fuel filter replacement but hard to start and still just cuts off and dies
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 05:01:57 pm: This line seems to go straight to the air filter box
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 17, 2020, 05:09:55 pm: That was an old crankcase breather hose that was discontinued in the fire recall. It plugged into the valve cover, went to a metal line over to the air filter canister. It was replaced with a metal tube that plugs into the valve cover and then into the air intake tube right in front of the throttle body. It's that tube that you can see just below the throttle cable.

I'd suggest removing the rubber hose down at the metal line that's fastened to the firewall so the rubber hose doesn't get onto the exhaust.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 05:29:31 pm: Ok . So I just replace the bulb in the check engine light still doesn't work
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 05:52:00 pm: So I took a video of it starting right up runs and then just cuts out if anybody wants me to send that to them and think it may be of some help let me know
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 17, 2020, 06:13:58 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 05:29:31 pm
Ok . So I just replace the bulb in the check engine light still doesn't work

Almost seems like the ECU. Either there is a wiring/connectivity issue, or the ECU. If you turn the ignition key to accessory, the check engine light should illuminate.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 07:09:09 pm: It does not work . the plastic liner circuitry thingy that is attached to the back of the gauge cluster is peeling off and not in very good shape so I'm wondering if I should replace the gauge cluster also the fuel gauge and temperature gauge do not work.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 07:40:07 pm: What's weird the other day it would run until I turned it off but I had a massive vacuum leak which I have since fixed. Fiero fool has a video of it running but it was obviously idling at 2500 RPMs. Now that I fixed the vacuum leaks it starts up fine runs for about 5 seconds and just shuts off. Then it will be hard to start for several minutes. Or I can wait a few minutes and it will start right back up idle fine then just die. Almost as if the key is being turned off..
Once again I have two videos one of it running with the vacuum leak and one of it running with the vacuum leak fixed and stalling.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 17, 2020, 08:43:44 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 07:09:09 pm
It does not work . the plastic liner circuitry thingy that is attached to the back of the gauge cluster is peeling off and not in very good shape so I'm wondering if I should replace the gauge cluster also the fuel gauge and temperature gauge do not work.

If you're a paid club member, you may see about replacements.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 17, 2020, 08:45:39 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 07:40:07 pm
What's weird the other day it would run until I turned it off but I had a massive vacuum leak which I have since fixed. Fiero fool has a video of it running but it was obviously idling at 2500 RPMs. Now that I fixed the vacuum leaks it starts up fine runs for about 5 seconds and just shuts off. Then it will be hard to start for several minutes. Or I can wait a few minutes and it will start right back up idle fine then just die. Almost as if the key is being turned off..
Once again I have two videos one of it running with the vacuum leak and one of it running with the vacuum leak fixed and stalling.

While it's idling, open the throttle, and see what happens.

What injectors are you using?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 17, 2020, 08:47:35 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 17, 2020, 09:59:50 am
Okay so that raises a bit of concern about the temperature sensor as the gauge inside the car is not working neither is the fuel gauge I do have a brand-new temperature sensor I just have not put it in yet. I've started a parts list in my Amazon account I will add a fuel filter to the list I have a timing light in there as well anything else you suggest. Also the check engine light bulb I think is blown out because I do not get a check engine light when the key is just in the accessory or run position.

See the October 2018 newsletter for all the sensor locations.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: scottb on March 17, 2020, 09:47:07 pm: Yes, change out the cluster with a good one....... while you have it out there are a couple of wires that were put in wrong from the factory, look up pontiacs electrical blunders. Not hard to do.

Now that you have the vacuum leak fixed have you checked fuel pressure?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 17, 2020, 10:58:01 pm: I agree with Scott on the fuel pressure. Troubleshooting says it's insufficient fuel getting to the injectors. That's why I asked in the email if it was previously a 4-cylinder. The pump wouldn't provide a sufficient GPM or pressure. A manifold gasket leak can cause the same issue.

At ignition on, no start, the pump should pressurize the system to close to 43 psi and not leak down. At start and run, it shouldn't drop below 38-39 psi to keep it running. If you have a MightyVac, disconnect the vacuum line from the MAP sensor. The long one that goes underneath the intake is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum. Pull a few inches hg and see if the regulator holds a vacuum or if you get any fuel coming out of the vacuum line. May be a bad regulator.

For your instrument pod problem, you can get a pod and swap out the instruments from your pod so you have correct mileage and gauges. I'm pretty sure all but the 84 pods have the same printed circuit.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:07:13 am: Right after I start it and it's idling if I press the gas it revs up like normal. Injectors are Stock from the 2.8 I cleaned them before reinstalling with new o rings .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:13:29 am: Okay I will try to find a replacement cluster unless anybody on here has one for sale. I have not tested fuel pressure but I can't hear the pump running I also get a good squirt of fuel from a Schrader valve every time I check. I know this is not a good way to test fuel pressure so I'll just pick up a fuel pressure tester here soon and test the pressure .just a quick note when the car does just cut off ,as soon as the engine dies the fuel pump primes again.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:18:54 am: During the rebuild I replaced the fuel pressure regulator. the only issue I had with the fuel pressure regulator is I broke the vacuum outlet off as Fierofool may remember me asking him about it .but I ended up just using the Camaros fuel pressure regulator
" housing"to remedy that. They looked completely identical. And I used the brand new Fiero 2.8 internals.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 06:34:55 am: What engine was previously in this Fiero?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but 2000k idle ??
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 06:40:47 am: Quote from: Fierofool on March 12, 2020, 01:44:14 pm
Do you have a MightyVac? You can test the vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator by pulling a few inches of vacuum and see if it holds. Same with the vacuum line to the EGR valve. Some of the other lines are open at the opposite end so that test won't work.

I know this has been suggested, several times, but I still didn't see that you did it.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:45:40 am: 2.8 v6
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:46:32 am: I do not have a mighty vac I could go to harbor freight and pick one up.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 06:57:32 am: Even pulling the vacuum line from the FPR to check for fuel would be a good start there.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 06:57:54 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:45:40 am
2.8 v6

Were there any issues running the 2.8?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 07:23:13 am: The 2.8 I pulled had three spun rod bearings would not start lol

You can see my pictures that I posted in the 3.4 swap post that I made I never seen an engine in such bad shape.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 07:35:08 am: Yes, yuck.

Has the fuel filter been replaced?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 07:56:04 am: Yes, I replaced it yesterday.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 08:00:06 am: Is the exhaust fully connected?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 08:22:20 am: No . Somebody cut the catalytic converter out. Headers to y-pipe then the pipe goes down right before the catalytic converter then ends.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 06:07:10 pm: Ok. Well, you answered my question, anyway.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 18, 2020, 06:50:40 pm: No clogged cat here haha
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 18, 2020, 08:05:30 pm: LOL! Yep, that was where I was going.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 07:21:38 am: Does anyone have a gauge cluster available for sale? I don't need the faces or anything I just need the white part on the back with the circuitry. I plan to reuse all the gauges and the odometer. The check engine light will not work so I am trying to fix that so I can find out if I am throwing any codes.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 07:22:34 am: Attention top notch. I was made aware you may have gauge cluster parts?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 19, 2020, 08:07:07 am: Do you know if the white part in duke gauges is the same?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 08:42:16 am: I have no idea . I'm a nubie at fieros lol. . My car is a 87 se 2.8 I can get pictures when I get home if that helps
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 12:02:05 pm: https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/d/cincinnati-1986-fiero/7094859210.html

I am going to check this car out tonight and hopefully get a gauge cluster. Also the car is for sale no title but they can provide a bill of sale it is from a auto repair center. He is asking 350 bucks for the whole car if anyone would like to save this thing from the junkyard. If I get there tonight I will take some pictures and try to post them.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 12:02:34 pm: Also feel free to repost this in a more appropriate section of the website
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 19, 2020, 02:44:41 pm: I believe the clusters are the same. Only difference is the gauges. All the sensor feeds go to the same gauges. Just remove the gauges from your current panel and plug them into the replacement panel.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 19, 2020, 05:00:00 pm: Looks like none of the usual recalls were done on that car.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 19, 2020, 06:27:33 pm: Maybe just a sloppy job on the recalls. Wouldn't be the first such.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 19, 2020, 09:52:09 pm: The deck seal is still there, and the old air intake tube is there, so those recalls weren't done, that's for sure.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 19, 2020, 10:00:54 pm: All the Fieros I've owned still had the old tube, despite having the new tube. In one Fiero, a hole had been cut in the intake snorkel, and the new breather tube was literally duct-taped in place. My current Fiero had the hole in the air filter housing was wide open. I've seen many Fieros on which the recall was "done", but you could hardly tell. In general, I've found that the recalls were done as sloppily as they thought they could get away with.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 20, 2020, 07:22:08 am: I was referring to the big tube between the air filter and the throttle body, not the crankcase breather system.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 20, 2020, 07:26:48 am: Yes, mine had had a hole cut in that tube, rather than the tube replaced.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 20, 2020, 08:53:55 am: Quote from: GTRS Fiero on March 19, 2020, 10:00:54 pm
................................................In general, I've found that the recalls were done as sloppily as they thought they could get away with.

When I bought my first Fiero in 93, I soon learned of the recalls. I took it in to have the engine fire and brake recalls performed. I don't know what they did on the brakes, but later, when I was doing an oil change, I didn't see any heat shield that I'd read about.

I was talking with a relative in Nashville that worked for a Cadillac dealer. He mailed the heat shield TSB to me and sure enough the shields weren't there on the engine. Only the decklid strip had been removed. I took the car back and when I got it back, shields had been installed.

When driving, I kept hearing a metallic rattle. One day, I was into the engine compartment and found that the front manifold shield had not been properly installed. It was just hung over the top of the exhaust manifold, rather than bolting it in. Other shields had been modified so that they could be installed, though improperly installed.

At that time, they also lifted the car, using a floor jack underneath the oil pan. It left a very identifiable pattern in the indentation. It didn't affect the runability, and of course the dealer denied any responsibility.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 22, 2020, 04:31:28 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 19, 2020, 07:22:34 am
Attention top notch. I was made aware you may have gauge cluster parts?
There's a complete early duke gauge cluster in the barn. Early because it has a battery gauge below the tach, not an oil gauge.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 22, 2020, 09:09:11 pm: He can pull the gauges out of that pod and insert his V6 gauges into it. The membrane is the same.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 22, 2020, 09:10:50 pm: How about the plug for the link over to the aux gauge?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 22, 2020, 09:25:27 pm: That plug is in the main harness, not the instrument pod.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 24, 2020, 08:36:19 am: I ended up pulling all of my gauges out of the membrane and switching them over to the donor membrane which is in much better shape I have the whole interior tour out right now because I'm swapping everything out I should find out today if that worked.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 24, 2020, 08:37:48 am: Oh by the way it stays running now .the coil was bad. Got a new set of bosch injectors on the way to smooth out idle
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 24, 2020, 05:46:05 pm: Excellent news!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 24, 2020, 09:42:37 pm: Super stoked !
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 24, 2020, 09:47:59 pm: Gone for a drive, yet?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 08:09:03 am: No not yet, going to throw a new set of fuel injectors in there. It's running pretty rough an extremely rich with those Camaro injectors which sat on a shelf for a year and we're probably the original 94 injectors for that vehicle. Also I'm going to throw a 195 thermostat in there as I am currently not running one. I almost got the interior back together I shampooed the carpets and seats so the seats are not in it right now. I also swapped out the entire interior for a gray and black one to get rid of the brown and tan. Once I get those injectors I'll take it out at least up and down the Street, because of the coronavirus the DMVs are closed so I will not be able to get tags on it.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 08:17:18 am: Something very important: pictures! Please share.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 25, 2020, 08:53:09 am: I know you have a new fuel filter on the car but when you remove the old injectors, look in the top to see if there's any crud there. One of those sites we looked at suggested to always replace the fuel filter any time new injectors were installed. If there's crud there, I'd change the filter again.

When we replaced the injectors in the Fastback Formula, the tops of several injectors were totally plugged even though the car got a new filter.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 05:02:12 pm: I'd love to post pictures but having to use that picture up loader makes it more difficult because then I have to transfer them to a computer and then upload them and unfortunately just haven't had time to do all that. But I will get some here soon Fierofool Has videos of it running!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 05:56:10 pm: You can attach a picture directly from the web page. Some resizing may be necessary, but I use an app for that.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:04:04 pm: What app do you use on mobile to resize ?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:07:42 pm: Photo Resizer.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:11:53 pm: Got some of the GT interior put in
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:13:40 pm: Nice. Are you going to swap the steering wheel?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:15:50 pm: What she looks like
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:16:25 pm: Yeah I talked to Charles about trying to locate some more interior pieces I would like to get the three spoke GT steering wheel as it is a bit smaller I believe and obviously cosmetically more pleasing.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:17:18 pm: What is on the ground effects, below the side scoop?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:19:34 pm: I could measure my wheel, but dunno if it's smaller or not. Do you mean smaller in diameter?

You could check with Irrationable, to see if that wheel he was selling is still available.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:20:48 pm: Yeah the car I just pulled parts from the other day was an 85 GT 3-spoke steering wheel it seemed to be smaller diameter to me I could just be amazing things but it is kind of difficult to get in and out of the car having a smaller steering wheel would be nice. If I cannot find an original equipment replacement that is smaller I will just buy an after-market one
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:22:07 pm: Yeah smaller in diameter. Steering wheel is huge in that car haha but not having power steering definitely makes it easier to have a larger wheel but I feel like I can go smaller because the wheel is very easy to turn even when the car is stationary.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:23:18 pm: Just saying, but the steering wheel on the new Corvette is nice. You could accomplish your goal with a wheel like that.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:24:24 pm: I have a full 360 video of it running if you want me to send it to you to check it out .just send me your email address if you want too.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:25:07 pm: Like the brand new 2020 Corvette haha? I can almost guarantee that steering wheel would be out of my price range lol
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:28:16 pm: That's OK. Fierofool, TopNotch, Raydar, NoMad, and some others are a bigger help with engine stuff than I am.

Maybe I'll see it in person at an event.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:29:19 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:25:07 pm
Like the brand new 2020 Corvette haha? I can almost guarantee that steering wheel would be out of my price range lol

Not that exact wheel. The style is available, and has been used in the Fiero.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:29:29 pm: It's cool no problem,like I said before I got a set of injectors on the way that should smooth everything out really good. If not 10 more troubleshooting for me ,but hey that's what makes it fun.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:30:01 pm: Do you have a link to it ?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:30:20 pm: Ha, ha. I can bring you my Fiero, so you can have fun.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs! but running rough new injectors on the way .
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:31:27 pm: Sure the column spline is the same for most GM vehicles of its time so I could mm swap it for whatever right?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:33:00 pm: you guys got some crazy Fieros I bet it would be a blast to drive some of those
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:33:08 pm: Some wheels look out of place. See here:
http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/showThread.cgi?forum=Archive-000002&thread=20031110-1-029090&style=printable
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:33:59 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:33:00 pm
you guys got some crazy Fieros I bet it would be a blast to drive some of those

Mine just has electrical gremlins. Nothing crazy.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:34:41 pm: Here (https://www.carid.com/1984-pontiac-fiero-steering-wheels/grant-suede-series-racing-wheel-d-shape-1185177709.html) is a link to the grant wheel.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:35:06 pm: Wow some of those wheels are very out there haha
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:36:06 pm: My car has tilt wheel if that's what it means by telescopic so does that mean it may not fit?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:37:12 pm: Telescopic goes in and out. Not stock on a Fiero, so probably not.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 07:38:02 pm: Okay cool that's kind of what I thought my G6 steering wheel goes in and out and up and down. Good to know
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 25, 2020, 07:39:01 pm: My steering wheel is extra special: it turns left and right! ;)
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 25, 2020, 08:07:41 pm: Haha!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 08:25:15 am: Well the car will idle now but it takes a little bit of playing with the throttle to get it started and I have to hold it there for a second and then it will idle fine but when I put into drive it still wanting to die..I'm starting to think my EGR tube may have some sort of tiny hole in it I don't know if that's going to keep it from starting up right or not
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 30, 2020, 08:50:03 am: Does anyone know if a misadjusted TVI cable would cause the stalling? Seems the rpm isn't being increased when put in gear.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 01:45:57 pm: if I hit the AC button to turn on the fan it will also want to stall unless I give it a little bit of gas and then it will idle fine with the fan on
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 30, 2020, 02:19:17 pm: Advance your timing by about 2 degrees. No need to jumper the ALDL. Warm the car up, loosen the distributor and turn it slightly counterclockwise.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 03:07:39 pm: Just drove it up the street wont stay running unless I keep my foot on the gas when it's in drive I advance the timing same thing as soon as I put it in drive it dies and it doesn't seem to have any power
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on March 30, 2020, 05:39:40 pm: Have you by any chance measured your fuel pressure?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 30, 2020, 06:17:00 pm: Yes, fuel shortage. Either not getting enough pressure, or the injectors are not providing adequate flow. Ultimately, running lean.

Low fuel pressure would affect both cold start and load conditions.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 30, 2020, 06:25:11 pm: Quote from: Fierofool on March 30, 2020, 08:50:03 am
Does anyone know if a misadjusted TVI cable would cause the stalling? Seems the rpm isn't being increased when put in gear.

It could always be disconnected, to test.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 30, 2020, 07:26:03 pm: The TVI cable is usually a problem when it's too loose. While trying to find how to adjust it, I find that the TVI cable has more to do with the shifting, so I'm not sure if it affects the idle speed when put into gear. I do know that if the car has an ECM from a manual transmission that this will be a problem.

Might even cause automatic shifting issues. Someone else will need to address that.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:40:52 pm: I have measured fuel pressure 40 psi
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:43:06 pm: I went out there a little bit ago the engine was still a little warm it started right up no problem idle just fine put it into drive and it was staying running chugging along at like five to six hundred RPMs but still had very little power if I tried to go anywhere. Once the engine heated up more it would no longer run in drive with out giving it gas . I have ordered a new temperature sending unit, a new IAC valve, a new throttle position sensor, and a new air charge sensor. When they show up I will throw those in and hopefully it makes a difference
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:44:24 pm: PS I really don't think it's running lean as even with these new Bosch injectors it still smells to be running a little rich. And I also ordered a new EGR gasket set because it is leaking at the tube where it meets the EGR valve. Also should I order a new EGR solenoid? Just to replace all the sensors since the car is been sitting out so long just to rule them all out
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 30, 2020, 09:07:56 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:43:06 pm
I went out there a little bit ago the engine was still a little warm it started right up no problem idle just fine put it into drive and it was staying running chugging along at like five to six hundred RPMs but still had very little power if I tried to go anywhere. Once the engine heated up more it would no longer run in drive with out giving it gas . I have ordered a new temperature sending unit, a new IAC valve, a new throttle position sensor, and a new air charge sensor. When they show up I will throw those in and hopefully it makes a difference

500-600 RPMs is too low. Yes, could be the IAC. Did you clean out the throttle body passages?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 30, 2020, 09:08:13 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:40:52 pm
I have measured fuel pressure 40 psi

Only 40PSI?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 30, 2020, 09:13:39 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 30, 2020, 07:44:24 pm
PS I really don't think it's running lean as even with these new Bosch injectors it still smells to be running a little rich. And I also ordered a new EGR gasket set because it is leaking at the tube where it meets the EGR valve. Also should I order a new EGR solenoid? Just to replace all the sensors since the car is been sitting out so long just to rule them all out

You might want to hold off on the RGR solenoid for a bit.

I was wondering about the fuel smell issue. The O2 indicating lean, causing the ECU to try to change the mixture.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 08:35:36 am: It's it's right over 40 PSI at idle nice and steady. I thought that was normal for this car
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 08:36:23 am: are the throttle body and intake plenum are spotless when I was redoing the engine and had them off the car I went through them pretty good.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 08:37:52 am: Would you recommend me replacing the O2 sensor?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on March 31, 2020, 09:19:54 am: 40 psi at idle is pretty good. The EGR solenoid doesn't affect anything as far as how it runs, especially at idle. Many people remove it or the valve and remove the check engine light.

When you installed the new IAC, did you adjust the pintle down to just under 1 1/8 inch? If it had a slotted pintle shaft, did you rock it side to side while pressing down on it to retract it? If it had a smooth round shaft, did you retract the spring from the tip and screw it down? The one with the slotted shaft can be damaged if you try to screw it down.

O-2 sensor usually will throw a 33 code if it's bad. I'm having that issue right now. 33 code and 45 code. Rich exhaust and MAP sensor. 0-2 sensors can be bad enough to give problems but still not throw a code.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 09:57:54 am: I haven't received the new IAC valve yet waiting for it to come in the mail.the only sensor I have replaced so far is the m.a.p. I have a new air charge sensor, throttle position sensor, temperature sending unit, and i.a.c on the way .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap will not idle in drive little power when driving
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 10:03:10 am: Is it possible the transmission could be stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 10:48:00 am: Started right up this morning!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 05:32:04 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 08:37:52 am
Would you recommend me replacing the O2 sensor?

No. What does the pressure read, with the ignition off, when you first prime the pump?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap will not idle in drive little power when driving
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 05:35:45 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 10:03:10 am
Is it possible the transmission could be stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear?

When you went for a drive, did it shift?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 05:36:27 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 10:48:00 am
Started right up this morning!

Almost sounds like the CTS or associated wiring.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 06:33:48 pm: I'll have to hook a fuel pressure gauge up to it when I go back out there tomorrow. When I drove it no it did not get out of first I didn't go any faster than 20 mph and had little power .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 06:34:51 pm: What was the RPM?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 06:38:42 pm: 3 k max I didn't want to push it
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 06:40:04 pm: It was in first.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 06:40:49 pm: Okay that's good
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 06:42:25 pm: I'll have to double-check it to be sure but last time I checked the fuel pressure before I started the car and I turn the key for the pressure was at 45 to 48 maybe and when running it stays right about 40- 42 PSI but don't set that in stone just yet I'll have to retest it
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 07:00:10 pm: Those numbers are good. Looking more and more like CTS.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on March 31, 2020, 11:06:09 pm: This is the one right above the water pump correct.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 31, 2020, 11:16:01 pm: Yes.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 01, 2020, 10:08:05 am: I put it in still stalls when it's in drive.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 01, 2020, 10:48:10 am: Update after the engine got warmed up it will run and drive but it bounces around 5 to 700 RPMs and then eventually will chug its way up to 900 RPMs and stay there but then it started chugging again around 5 to 600 RPMs and through check engine codes I believe they are code 22 and code 32 I already replaced the map sensor I have a new air charge sensor on the way
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 01, 2020, 10:50:15 am: Code 22 is for the throttle position sensor I also have one of those on the way
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 01, 2020, 11:50:14 am: Sorry I can't be of much help. I'm playing school teacher this week.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 01, 2020, 03:03:14 pm: You're all good buddy the help of already received from you has been great
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 08, 2020, 06:26:38 pm: Parts come in, yet?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 23, 2020, 06:35:07 am: yeah running better but not 100 percent im looking for a egr vacuum solenoid cant seem to find it .throwing code 32 getting ramdom sputtering and poping if anyine is selling a good one im your buyer
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on April 23, 2020, 08:03:06 am: I have an EGR solenoid. It's missing that little hose that's so often a problem on those, though.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 23, 2020, 08:07:07 am: The EGR solenoid won't cause any issues with the way the car runs even if it sets a code. The popping is caused by other issues.

The check engine light can be an annoyance, but it will come on and go off as you drive it, if it's only caused by the EGR system. If you can wait long enough, I will be freeing up a solenoid in a month or so, as my 7730 conversion takes place.

Did you replace the fuel filter with the new injectors install? I'm having what I thought was a misfire but could be described as sputtering and popping. It begins at about a half tank of fuel and gets worse as the fuel level drops. I am now theorizing that it's caused by a bad pump to outlet hose that begins sucking air as the fuel level drops below it. Filling the tank causes the problem to go away. Do you have a full tank of fuel?

Pat, I have a piece of hose that we can install before shipping.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 08:10:45 am: Supposedly, it's no biggie to find that hose. Not sure what type of hose it is, though.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 23, 2020, 08:15:39 am: I have been replacing them for years with a length of fish tank aerator hose from my daughter's old fish tank. The hose is almost gone. I'm down to less than a foot. Of course, she had the fish when she was in high school, over 20 years ago.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 08:17:41 am: That clear hose?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 23, 2020, 08:25:12 am: It was clear. It's now aged to a nice lager beer amber color. Sometimes the problem isn't the solenoid, but the little rubber piece that connects the hard plastic line to the solenoid. It rots, becomes porous and loses its ability to hold a vacuum. A little piece of the vinyl hose as a replacement solves the problem.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 08:25:59 am: For the people who tried it, how long does it last in use?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 23, 2020, 08:28:41 am: Never had one to fail.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 08:35:18 am: Better than the factory, huh? :)
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 23, 2020, 11:21:43 am: I can't say yes to that. None have been on there for 35 years, yet.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 05:52:22 pm: There is someone developing new EGR units. I'm hoping tomget a test unit, soon.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 23, 2020, 07:08:37 pm: Yeah I just filled it up a little bit again the other day it's got three quarters of a tank. Fuel filter is brand new. Getting stable fuel pressure.it will cold start right up. Once it warms up a little bit it will be sputtery and then I mess with the throttle position sensor have a little bit in it will run fine but starts throwing code 32. Throttle position sensor is brand new as well although I have the bend the tab considerably in order to get .5 volts. Cheap RockAuto stuff. so the only other sensor left to replace his that vacuum solenoid I just want to get it out of the way just to rule it out. The little hose that you speak of is in good shape on mine I also have plenty of extra silicone vacuum line that I bought. Just not too sure what else I can do to make it run right. Seems like some days it runs great some days it don't. making an order today for new front calipers and brake lines and tie rods upper and lower ball joints that way I will feel safe taking it out on the road and hopefully after driving it around a little bit maybe some sensors will get everything sorted out and start running better. But got to wait till the front calipers, at least because they are locked up.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 07:55:02 pm: Have you reset the ECU. Also, have you programmed the IAC?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 23, 2020, 08:18:59 pm: If I resetting ECU you mean disconnecting the battery for a few minutes yes.haha , I'm not sure how to set the idle air control valve I assumed it just did its thing once it was installed .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 23, 2020, 08:21:04 pm: There is a complex procedure. Driving over 35 MPH, slowing. Seems unnecessary, but many report this is the correct procedure.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 23, 2020, 08:25:17 pm: Okay cool yeah I can do that once I get all those suspension and brake parts put on right now that calipers grabbing so bad I'm going to end up starting a fire if I drive it. And the rubber brake lines and tie rods really make me super nervous so once I get all that stuff put on I'll take it up and down the road and see if things smooth out. Like I said some days it will start right up and run great and rev up fine and idle all day long and other days it doesn't want to stay running and sputters . My parts should be here next Friday so unfortunately I have another week to go until I can even try it out.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 27, 2020, 10:41:40 am: Will breaking and suspension components some showed up on Saturday the rest are supposed to show up today so that's awesome don't have to wait the rest of the week hopefully I can get this thing rolling around today
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 27, 2020, 12:54:12 pm: I am still not able to find that EGR vacuum solenoid so if anyone's got a known good working one for sale let me know
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on April 27, 2020, 01:04:57 pm: I still have one.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 27, 2020, 02:00:11 pm: I pulled mine apart and checked it out it was really clean inside and the coil was nice and clean all the holes breathe fine I can blow air through all of them.it currently doesn't even want to start up and stay running unless I hold the gas and it seems like it's missing.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 27, 2020, 02:13:30 pm: So I got it idle in on its own butt though idle is super erratic making popping noises and is idle between 500 and 1500 RPMs. Pretty sure the timing is right on is it ran fine earlier this month I replace every sensor and I threw an AC Delco throttle position sensor in there and I'm getting .5 volts at idle I'm at a loss I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe I should get a whole new distributor and maybe a new fuel pressure regulator? I'm getting 45 to 50 lb of pressure while running. I just don't know what else to do
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 27, 2020, 08:20:35 pm: The FPR is good, at those pressures.

For now, we'll figure that the compression is good, for the same reason as the timing. That leaves fuel, air, compression, and spark. Could it be backfiring?

Let's figure that it's getting air.

There is a small bypass hole in the throttle nody. If you cover that hole while the engine is idling, does the engine die?

I wonder if it's starving for fuel. How do the plugs look? Pull the injector fuses. Using a work glove, hold a plug against the block, and observe the spark while cranking. What color is the spark?

Check the injector fuses. Is either one blown?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on April 27, 2020, 08:29:36 pm: You can eliminate the EGR by blocking it off with a plate cut from a soda can. If nothing changes, you know it's not the EGR. Remove and plug the vacuum source to the EGR solenoid to eliminate any vacuum problem caused by it.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 27, 2020, 08:32:27 pm: It seems that a vacuum leak should raise the RPM. 500 is too low.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 07:50:48 am: Okay I'm going to get out there soon start working on it. The EGR is brand-spanking-new so I doubt it's bad but I will block it off just a test. Also I have noted that I get no vacuum to the EGR I have never felt any vacuum pulling through that line I have disconnected it while it's running and nothing changes but I will go out there here in a little bit and block off the EGR entirely. And block off the solenoid entirely.then if it will stay running I will block off that poor on the throttle body and see if it stalls. And if I can get a helper with me today I will get the brakes bled and try and see what color the spark is. I also have a compression tester so I guess I will do that as well.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 07:51:10 am: Thank you all for the troubleshooting tips I will report back in a little while
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2020, 08:08:43 am: No vacuum to EGR valve, or EGR solenoid? IIRC, the EGR solenoid and the FPR share a vacuum line. If no vacuum, the FPR will not operate properly, which could cause the injectors to spray too much fuel, which will cause a rich condition.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 28, 2020, 08:36:21 am: The MAP and fuel pressure regulator share a common vacuum. The EGR solenoid gets its vacuum direct from a port on the bottom of the throttle body.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2020, 08:39:07 am: Ah, yes, 50 PSI while running is high. Still wondering about that vacuum line and the MAP sensor.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 09:23:45 am: These are my cold compression numbers. Not looking too hot. But I've had this motor running fine a week ago. My hot compression numbers will be better I'm sure but it's hard to get back there with a hot engine.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: TopNotch on April 28, 2020, 09:31:38 am: If the car is drive-able, bring it to the next meeting I will bring my scanner and we can test your car.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 09:33:39 am: Well I currently can't even keep it running and when it does decide to run it's running really erratically
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 09:34:01 am: I also live in Cincinnati Ohio which is like seven hundred miles away
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 09:45:03 am: So all the plugs and wires back on starts right up idles rough but won't stay idling unless I keep flipping the throttle if I bring the RPMs up to 2 Grand it runs smooth. This has got to be some sort of sensor related issue or vacuum. Some barely touching a throttle I can get it to idle around 600 RPMs but the idle keeps going up to 1200 and down to 600.I just put it up on stands and ran it in gear at 40 miles per hour for a few minutes but nothing has changed.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 28, 2020, 10:23:25 am: Okay so I just figured out when it's running I am getting no vacuum to these two ports is that normal.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 28, 2020, 03:52:08 pm: The EGR vacuum lines don't work except when the vehicle is at road speed. One of them goes to the underside of the throttle body. The other goes to the EGR valve. You should have vacuum on the larger one if it's connected to the throttle body. It connects to the port nearer the distributor. That may be the reason for the hunting idle and poor running. Here's a diagram: https://www.fierostore.com/Tech/Images/363.jpg

Sorry, but I couldn't see your videos you sent. That's why I haven't responded.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 28, 2020, 05:03:32 pm: What happens if you unplug the electrical connector from the MAP sensor, and try running it? That'll throw a code, but sounds as if it couldn't run worse.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 29, 2020, 01:05:07 am: The more I think about this, the more I wonder if there is vacuum on the line to the MAP sensor/FPR.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 29, 2020, 08:23:52 am: The MAP sensor is attached via a T connection, direct to the upper intake manifold. Of course, that connection is underneath and out of sight, so it could be disconnected. While replacing my MAP sensor, I snapped the short connector tube underneath. Had I not felt it break, I wouldn't have known.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Raydar on April 29, 2020, 09:14:14 am: The rubber connectors (elbows and "T"s) that hold all the hard vacuum lines together are always suspect, IMHO.
When I did my 3.4, I ended up replacing ALL of the plastic hard lines and rubber connectors with the proper sized rubber lines, and new plastic T-connectors, where needed. It wasn't nearly as sexy, but all of my mysterious vacuum leaks (and running issues) were gone.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 29, 2020, 09:49:38 am: If I unplug the map sensor the check engine light comes on and it will not run.I do have some silicone hose here I guess I could go ahead and rerun all the vacuum lines just to rule them out. The two vacuum lines that go to that EGR solenoid have no vacuum. When the engine is running the bottom port on the throttle body has no vacuum. And there are two vacuum lines that come from the wall of the trunk that go to the charcoal canister that I cannot blow air through or suck air into I don't know if that is normal. I think that charcoal canister is clogged but I don't know if that would cause these issues.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 29, 2020, 10:42:58 am: The throttle body vacuum port may be closed at idle because the EGR solenoid doesn't work all the time. If you have a vacuum gauge you an attach to the hose at the solenoid, try jazzing the throttle and see if you get a vacuum reading.

The canister should have no effect on the performance of the engine. It simply accepts gas vapors from the tank as it pressurizes, then the port to the manifold sucks those vapors out when the engine is started. It might be an issue if the valve on top of the canister were stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, but if it's stuck in the closed position there should be no problem.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 29, 2020, 11:24:42 am: I have tested a spare charcoal canister and throttle body. I can't make a real determination on the throttle body since it's removed from the intake and the back of the port is open, but the port enters a channel that runs around the perimeter of the venturi to the top where the Holley logo is located. It appears that it connects to a channel that then runs down the opposite perimeter of the venturi and connects to the other port on the bottom. This would provide a vacuum indirectly from the charcoal canister.

The throttle body port nearest the firewall is the one that attaches to the canister via the metal lines on the trunk wall. The port nearest the distributor and idle control valve connects to the EGR solenoid. The other line from the solenoid connects to the EGR valve.

In testing the canister, I find that the nipple on the very top of the canister will operate the valve in the canister. I can hear it click as vacuum or pressure is applied and released. The other small nipple does not seem to flow with either vacuum or pressure and may be dependant upon the position of the valve. I can't apply a vacuum and pressure to both at the same time. The larger nipple goes to a metal line on the fender wall and transitions directly to the fuel tank.

I have 2 or 3 sets of good plastic lines but I wouldn't dare try to ship them. I guess the best thing to do if you find there is a need to replace them is to order a set of stainless lines from Rodney Dickman. Pricey, but they will forever solve the problem and they are a much better fit than lines sold by some other vendors. Previously, they were around $150 but I see he's reduced the price.
http://rodneydickman.com/product_info.php?products_id=86
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 29, 2020, 02:06:55 pm: Yeah I guess when I get back out there tomorrow I'll run some new vacuum lines and see what happens. I'd love to have the Rodney dickman steel lines but that is super pricey and I'm already into this car $1600 way more than I expected and I can't even drive it yet! And Remember I got the car for free!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 29, 2020, 03:17:15 pm: Well I got her all warmed up right now she's idling at 1200 RPMs little hiccup here and there idols in drive at about nine hundred to a thousand RPMs which is a little high I think and maybe my mind just tricking me but I might be here in a little bit of a vacuum hiss back there so tomorrow I'm going to run on new lines and see if that don't smooth things out. Been sitting here running for about 30 minutes.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 29, 2020, 05:21:55 pm: 900-1,100 RPM at idle after the engine warms up is normal. It may run as high as 1,500 when cold.

So, what did you do to get it to idle?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 29, 2020, 05:22:45 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on April 29, 2020, 09:49:38 am
If I unplug the map sensor the check engine light comes on and it will not run.

That is not normal. It should run, although rich and not well.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 29, 2020, 11:04:14 pm: I just held it at 2 k for a minute to keep it running then it idled . It's not right though .it's run better before. Still poping here and there when warmed up . And will go threw kind of a cycle of looping rpms then smooth out and be steady then loop agian . It's weird .even with my foot on the gas to keep it at 2 k it will surge to 2500 and down to 1500 .then be smooth for a few seconds . Then Do it again . I wish I could post a video of it .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 11:32:26 am: Brand new vacuum lines and replace the throttle body gasket same thing
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 30, 2020, 12:04:33 pm: There is an O-ring in the back of tne throttle body where the large metal tunbe attaches. Is it in place?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 12:26:09 pm: Yeah that is in place. use a little bit of propane from a torch to detect any vacuum leaks didn't get any changes in idle. I put it on jack stands and ran it at 40 miles an hour for about 10 minutes and now it seems to be idling right on a thousand RPMs in neutral and 900-1000 in drive doesn't always want to stay running in drive but if I barely touch the throttle a little bit for a couple seconds then it will idle in drive. Hasn't been popping anymore so maybe just getting it up to speed got some sensors figure it out. I have a small hairline crack in the oil pan so I just threw some J-B weld on there for now got to let that cure for hours temporary fix. Once I was cured I'm going to fill it back up with oil and try and take it for a drive weather permitting. I will update everyone later on today. What's so far it seems like she'll be drivable!!!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 30, 2020, 12:46:41 pm: The ecm needs road speed sensor input to learn setpoints.

I don't mean to throw another wrench in the gears, but if tne rear of the car wasnt supported under the control arms, you can damage the axels by running it in gear. Pay attention to them, especially the short left one.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 04:01:43 pm: Just took her for a drive! it is shifting good and staying running for sure doesn't feel like it's got the amount of power it should it's running a bit rough. seems like one of the cylinders might not be firing right hopefully this isn't that compression issues that I mentioned before. Just seems to be a little rough.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 04:18:13 pm: So I just took it out for another spin it is sthrowing trouble codes 32 and 34.this relates to the EGR and map sensor if I am correct what should I check into. EGR valve is a brand new map sensor is also brand new.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 30, 2020, 05:40:36 pm: It still seems to me that the suspension shouldn't drop enough to allow this.

Glad things are finally getting sorted.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 30, 2020, 06:07:31 pm: Sandman, I just had a trouble code 33 and 34. Replaced the O-2 and the MAP. Then I got a rich burn code. I don't remember what part that indicated, but the only thing I could think of that would cause a rich burn was the Coolant Temperature Sensor. Replaced it and the new code went away. Mileage has jumped from 18 to 22.

The left half-shaft is so short that when the suspension is fully unloaded, there is a sharp angle at the tri-pot end at the transmission. The tri-pot can bind and suffer damage. The right side isn't so prone because the longer length creates less angle.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 30, 2020, 06:27:56 pm: I was just thinking that this is a design flaw.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 07:39:20 pm: im going to warranty replace the m.a.p tomorrow and ill grab a new o2 sensor .the coolant temp sensor is new so idk haha. i have not replaced the o2 sensor so i guess i will .after i get the new parts on ill report back..

the axel looks fine visually hope i didn't fatigue it !

right now it drives but i wouldn't take it far with how little power and rough its running .

after i read the codes and restarted it to put in the garage the codes were cleared. so idk
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on April 30, 2020, 07:48:38 pm: p.s im going to try and get a driving video tomorrow and post it to youtube so yall can hear it .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on April 30, 2020, 08:14:20 pm: As fas as the CTS, new does not mean good.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on April 30, 2020, 08:41:04 pm: Correct. Especially if it's a BWD brand. Others should be suspect, too if made outside the northern hemisphere but still be wary of those. I bought an AC Delco oil pressure sensor that was in a BWD box inside an AC Delco box.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 01, 2020, 03:07:55 pm: Just dropped the car off its getting an alignment done. Put a new map sensor in it still runs the same put new plug wires on it still runs the same retested my compression hot they are all within 119 and 125
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 01, 2020, 05:46:54 pm: Is there vacuum at the FPR?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 01, 2020, 06:32:34 pm: There would have to be a vacuum at the pressure regulator. If the MAP sensor goes bad, the ECM can't accurately calculate engine load, which means the air-fuel ratio will become either too rich (more fuel) or too lean (less fuel). ... This leads to excessive fuel consumption, poor fuel economy, and possibly detonation.

If the sensor is disconnected, the fuel load will be excessive. Makes me wonder what was going on when the engine just quit when you unplugged the harness. I could see it choking down from flooding, but not just stopping as if the ignition was turned off.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 01, 2020, 06:36:47 pm: The fuel pressure is too high while running, which makes me suspect that's why the engine is running rich. Usually, high fuel pressure is caused by fuel pump or FPR issues. The most likely issue with the fuel pump is vacuum.

No idea why the engine wouldn't run with the MAP sensor unplugged.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 01, 2020, 06:37:53 pm: It almost makes me question the ECU. Sortof like Donsterxs up/down idle issue, although that was on an L4.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 01, 2020, 07:01:24 pm: A bad MAP sensor will cause an erratic idle. Do a google search for map sensor purpose. That's where I found the information above. Lots of other good information comes up, too. What happens when it's bad, what happens if it's unplugged, etc.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 08:25:55 am: You know I woke up in the middle night and was thinking that popping noise it makes reminds me of when I had those Camaro injectors in there. I drove around quite a bit yesterday I'm wondering if one of those Bosch fuel injectors I got is faulty? I'm going to put a screwdriver on the top of those today and let it run just make sure that those are all pulsing.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 08:37:00 am: Um, how does this screwdriver thing work?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:01:52 am: I just put it up against the back of the injector and put it up against my ear and just hear if I can hear it pulsing doesn't necessarily mean it's working right but at least I know I have power.also as of this morning I can disconnect the map sensor and it will stay running
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:07:53 am: here is the link to the video I shot yesterday

https://youtu.be/Y_AEpA3IcXk
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:08:18 am: Ah.

For the MAP sensor, you unplugged it prior to starting the engine, right? Any change in how the engine runs?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:12:03 am: I still think I hear a vacuum leak but I can't pinpoint it or get it to surge using propane maybe I'm just hearing intake noise I can't be sure
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:12:41 am: I will unplug it now and start it give me a second
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:13:44 am: Nope it runs the same triggers a check engine light obviously but runs the exact same when I unplug it and then start it
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:14:36 am: I am uploading another video to YouTube of the engine bay area it'll be uploaded in about 5 to 10 minutes I'll drop a link
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:14:58 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:07:53 am
here is the link to the video I shot yesterday

https://youtu.be/Y_AEpA3IcXk

Would you post a video of the engine running, from the engine bay, with the car parked? You can blip the throttle by hand.

Your uniquely-shaped ignition key looks gold.

I saw that the brake light was on. Is the e-brake released?

It seems down on power, or the speedo is off. If I get on mine like that, it will be up to 60MPH.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:15:57 am: yeah it is definitely down on power for sure the E brake light is on because the e-brake is disconnected and there's something funky going on with the little sensor by the handle
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:22:25 am: https://youtu.be/NXRQOYJ8WfQ
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:26:20 am: Vacuum at idle
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:30:20 am: Idle is 1150 rpm
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:34:37 am: That sensor sometimes requires a bit of adjustment.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:38:10 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:22:25 am
https://youtu.be/NXRQOYJ8WfQ

Not sure what's up with the bundle of wires by the throttle body, or the interesting routing of those red vacuum lines.

Certainly stumbling on tip-in. Also some hesitation. It sounds flooded.

Remind me. Which injectors are you using?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:39:14 am: Did you see the engine bay video
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:40:55 am: I am running is Bosch injectors off the BMW 325i that Fiero fool had recommended. The bundle of wires is for the rear trunk latch the idiot who had it for me rran them down on the wrong side and cut all the wires the red vacuum lines are me replacing all the plastic vacuum lines just to try to rule them out not the prettiest thing ever but they don't leak
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:41:39 am: I thought that was the engine bay video.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:42:34 am: Yeah I only uploaded one engine bay video so I guess you saw it
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:43:00 am: I can swear I hear a vacuum leak. Does the amount of vacuum I have in that picture I posted seem right for idle at those RPMs
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:44:03 am: And what does it mean if I unplug the map sensor and it runs the same
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:47:49 am: https://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-OEM-Bosch-Fuel-Injectors-0280150415-for-1991-1999-BMW-2-5L-3-0L-I6-Set-of-6-/190805329263?pageci=f3da803e-62fa-4a54-bc36-acd5e891a5e0&epid=74581539
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:51:46 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:43:00 am
I can swear I hear a vacuum leak. Does the amount of vacuum I have in that picture I posted seem right for idle at those RPMs

18" sounds about right, but just a guess. Someone will correct me.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 02, 2020, 09:55:04 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:44:03 am
And what does it mean if I unplug the map sensor and it runs the same

When I dealt with a MAP sensor issue, the car was almost impossible to keep running. We unplugged the MAP sensor, and it ran badly, but got me home. I replaced the MAP sensor, plugged it in, and the car ran better.

Fierofool suggested a google search. Here is the top result.
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Bad-MAP-Sensor-Symptoms-and-Testing

Anything on the list sound familiar?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 02, 2020, 10:08:48 am: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 09:47:49 am
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-OEM-Bosch-Fuel-Injectors-0280150415-for-1991-1999-BMW-2-5L-3-0L-I6-Set-of-6-/190805329263?pageci=f3da803e-62fa-4a54-bc36-acd5e891a5e0&epid=74581539

The 0208150415 is correct, but that other number doesn't look right. The other reference number was 13641730060.

The engine sounds a little like it might have some valves out of adjustment. Were the pushrods removed for any reason, requiring readjustment?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 10:42:52 am: I took the lifters out in order to put new intake gaskets on it but that's it ran fine before wouldn't understand why it would come out of adjustment but I could check into it
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 02, 2020, 10:58:43 am: It is throwing codes 32 and 34 again
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 11:31:42 am: Well whatever was going on it's running great now got loads of power still throwing code 34 and 32 but running great
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: NoMad on May 04, 2020, 11:59:43 am: Well that is positive at least. Nice work.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 04:55:38 pm: Put a hundred miles on it today didn't have any issues
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 04, 2020, 05:36:41 pm: Quote from: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 11:31:42 am
Well whatever was going on it's running great now got loads of power still throwing code 34 and 32 but running great

Good to read. Do you know what changed?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 06:50:04 pm: The day apparently. It was still running a little weird yesterday fired up this morning to get some exhaust work done on it and it ran great so I drove it a many miles after the exhaust and it's still running great! So great I was even able to get tail happy
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 06:52:37 pm: honestly I'm thinking some sensors were just needing to get driven on so they can learn. My new map sensor shows up tomorrow because it is still throwing a code 34 maybe that will make the check engine light go away.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 04, 2020, 07:50:04 pm: Only time and a good part will tell.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 04, 2020, 07:52:41 pm: i really appreciate all your help and input! it means a-lot !!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap running good ..finally !
Post by: Sandman87 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:39 pm: Took her to work today !
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 05, 2020, 04:38:49 pm: That's great!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 07, 2020, 10:21:13 am: I got new carpet LED headlights new gauge lights paint fiberglass primer on the way!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 10, 2020, 08:19:24 am: Has it continued running well?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 10, 2020, 04:25:02 pm: Sure has put 300 miles on it now. I just put new carpet in it ! Got rid of the tan stuff ! if anyone wants my old carpet it was in decent shape no stains or anyting you can have it for free but you must pick it up
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 10, 2020, 04:35:29 pm: I guess the ECU needed time to learn.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 10, 2020, 04:59:41 pm: Yeah I guess so it's still randomly throwing code for the map and EGR but runs fine . Getting 19 mpg . Developed a little bit of a tick at 2k to 3k RPMs . So I'm gonna re lash the valves and re set the preload . But first going to run some seafoam threw the oil and see if that helps
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 12, 2020, 07:11:16 am: does anybody have or know where I can find the little plastic clip that the shift cable terminates to to the top of the transmission the little white plastic circular clip keeps falling off so I'm unable to shift gears
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 12, 2020, 07:52:12 am: Which transmission do you have?
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 12, 2020, 08:34:44 am: Can you give us a picture of the clip? If it's the end of the cable that snaps onto the transmission lever, I think it's cast onto the cable. They usually have a small circlip inside that holds it onto the ball stud. I had a 4-speed with the same problem and it had to be rigged with a zip tie to keep it on the ball stud.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 12, 2020, 08:57:41 am: T 125 I think it's the 3 speed one
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 12, 2020, 08:58:46 am: Yeah that what it looks like . I'll just tac weld a washer to the top to hold it on . If I got to replace the whole cable .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 12, 2020, 09:01:57 am: Thanks for the response!
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 12, 2020, 09:03:22 am: Rodney sells the one for a 4-speed, and recommends using a zip tie to secure.

I think the TH125 cable is built in.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 12, 2020, 09:34:27 am: I'll rig something up .thanks for the info .
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 15, 2020, 10:12:08 am: How can I test my fan switch.i don't think it's working.only comes on if I turn on the AC
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 15, 2020, 10:38:06 am: You can pull the connector off, insert a jumper wire into it and ground it. The fan should come on. If it doesn't, the problem is in the circuit. If it does, replace the fan switch. I suggest that you purchase Rodney Dickman's 225 ON, 210 OFF fan switch to reduce the probability of overheating. The switch kicks the fan on before it begins to overheat. If you run a 195 thermostat, the engine will operate in it's correct temperature range. That switch resolved the overheating problems in both my cars.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Slyp on May 15, 2020, 02:01:41 pm: Isn't easier to let it idle, and watch the temp gauge and see if it comes on at 250????
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: GTRS Fiero on May 15, 2020, 06:01:56 pm: When everything works correctly--if the system will get that warm. Some Fieros almost never get that warm. If the fan does not come on, you won't know why. Also, the temp gauge may not be accurate. Fierofool's method eliminates those variables, and is therefore a good test.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Fierofool on May 15, 2020, 07:24:41 pm: Quote from: DeShoe on May 15, 2020, 02:01:41 pm
Isn't easier to let it idle, and watch the temp gauge and see if it comes on at 250????

The stock fan switch kicks on at 235. I've used your method to see if my gauge was accurate.
Title: Re: 3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich
Post by: Sandman87 on May 15, 2020, 07:44:09 pm: Okay awesome ,thank you ! I will try the jumper with ground test tomorrow !