Georgia Fiero Club Forum
All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: TopNotch on May 02, 2020, 12:13:09 pm
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One of the headlight motors in my "new" Fiero was running on for a while after turning off the headlights. So I took apart the gear assembly from the motor, and sure enough, it was full of what looked like bread crumbs. Now, some time ago, I had bought a set of those "torque pins' (That's what the Fiero Store calls them.) but, of course, since I needed them now, I couldn't find them. So I put on my thinking cap to figure out a substitute. I happened to have a little parts drawer full of rubber grommets in various sizes, and one size was just the right diameter, and two of them stacked were just the right height. So I put those in the gear assembly and put everything back together and in the car. It seems to work just fine. I have no idea how long it will last, though.
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I fixed mine using 1/2" sections of fuel line. Worked okay for a while. Finally smashed them flat enough to let them slip.
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Home Depot sold a plastic dowel. I just cut off a small piece.
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Pat, I have some out here that came with the car. They're old, but they're what he bought for it. I also understand that Ford power window dowels will work. You can get them from the HELP rack at the parts store.
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The Ford window motor pins will work for a year or so, then flatten out. Have experience. Next best thing to Fiero Store parts would be delrin. HDPE as a last resort.
Charlie and I pulled a late headlight system from a car in Pull a Part. Tested the system, no worky. Pulled the motors apart and found someone (I believe Charlie knows the person) had pack the gears full of heavy grease and roller bearings. That system was rebuilt and sold.
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What are the TFS pins made from?
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While on the subject: 88 headlight motors, right one only opens sporadic. If I play (turn) with the spindle, it will work a few times again, then fail again.
Squeals a bit, despite lubricant, but as I stated, it will only work a few times.
Is it time to rebuild? I have experience with taking GEN 1 motors apart, but not 87/88 motors.
Any advice? If time to rebuild, what is the best source to get parts?
Thnx,
\D
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There's not much more you can do to the 88 motor besides replace the torque pins. Does the motor not run at all when it doesn't work?
One thing you can try is to disconnect the motor's wire and apply 12V to it to see what happens. One polarity (for example, plus to the blue wire and minus to the black) will raise the headlight, and the other polarity will lower it. Not sure which is which. If you can consistently raise and lower the headlight this way, suspect the wiring or controller, not the motor.
If the motor runs on after it reaches it's limit, the torque pins need replacing.
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Not sure about 1st gen, but on 2nd gen dont lose the little ball bearing at the bottom of the shaft
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The Gen 2 motors are the ones that have the tiny single BB. The case has a screw in the bottom with a dimple in the end of it. The motor shaft also has a dimple and the BB is sandwiched between. Don't readjust the screw and work on a good white cloth surface so you can see that BB when it falls out. Sometimes it might go up and stick to the magnets on the motor.
There are two things that can cause the Gen 2 motor to run on.
1. The drive pins have crumbled.
2. The tripot that is shrink fitted onto the horizontal gear shaft is slipping.
The pins can be replaced in a simple operation. The slipping tripot has been repaired by some by drilling and inserting a pin through the tripot and shaft, but this weakens both and is a bit of a precision operation to get it right.
One of the biggest problems with reassembling the Gen 2 motor, if it's taken totally apart, is getting the motor installed back into the case. I had to make some special retainers to keep the brushes retracted while I inserted the motor into the housing.
The Lil Duke Coupe had the same issue with the right headlight. If I used the headlights regularly, they worked great. If the car sat for a week or two, the right one wouldn't come up until I bumped or turned the knob. The 87 would only raise the headlights half way. It turned out to be the new light switch that I put in for cosmetic reasons.
The easiest fix is to just order a reman or new one.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web/SearchResults?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&searchTerm=headlight%20motor&isFitted=1
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1988,fiero,2.8l+173cid+v6,1249208,body,headlamp+motor,1412
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I used staples to hold everything in place for re-assembly.
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Dental floss works great for holding the brushes in until everything is assembled, then pull it out
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I don't remember which I used, but it was either staples, or I cut and bent pieces of paper clip. That was after I fought with it for an hour or more.
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OK, so here are the symptoms:
The right motor engages ONLY IF I turn the knob a bit (Turns really hard the first few turns) before turning on the headlights.
What I notice is that the knob goes up a bit after it is finished opening or closing. The driver's side does not do that. It is as if there is too much play in the (spindle?).
Is this some kind of indication of what might be wrong?
I've checked the module under the left fender well and all cables going to the motor. Also checked all grounds, they are all fine?
Any ideas?
Thnx!
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The little ball bearing at the bottom of the shaft is probably missing.
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It has been many years (when I first got the Lil Duke Coupe) that I've rebuilt a Gen 2 motor. I don't remember if it has the rubber weather seal at the top of the case, or not and if it does, I don't know if it would cause the effect you're seeing. But if there is a seal, it might b outside the case rather than captured in its pocket.
I agree with Pat that it's probably the ball bearing that's missing. It's captured between the screw and the bottom of the motor screw shaft and any movement up and down would allow it to fall out. That indicates that there should be no up and down movement. The tolerance could have been upset if you loosened that screw and its locknut during repair.
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Good call by Pat and Charlie.
I took apart the motor and find out that the PO had already rebuilt the motor with the 3 pins, but the BB was missing!
This obviously let the shaft set down on the bottom in the housing, causing to much friction, hence the module cut the power.
I had no steel BB, so my friend who owns the garage/shop I use, found a little hard-plastic pearl, which fit great. He also held apart the the two connectors for me with 2 "L" shaped wires, while I inserted the shaft.
Seems to work fine now, but I will need to get the correct BB, as I don't know how long this plastic ball will last.
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I lost one, but found a ball from a bearing that was the same size ball.
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I thought of using a BB, but the size was a bit different, and it was either coated or made from a different material. There were copper-colored BBs, and silver-colored BBs. Possibly both steel core, but the silver-colored ones seemed to be zinc coated.
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My home-made torque pins are already dead. Ordered some TFS ones today.
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What is the diameter? I have material that I have been using successfully in the Gen 1 motors. It was a larger size than I needed so I put it on the shelf. My material won't crumble apart.
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My motor stopped working again, so I took it apart and guess what? The plastic ball cracked in half, so there must be quite some torque going thru the shaft/spindle. Now I'm just going to order a refurb motor. They sell here in Germany for €80. €55, if I send in my old motor.
\D
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If you ever get something caught in the knob on top those motors, while the motor is running, you'll discover that there is a lot of torque.
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If you would like to commit a crime and be sure you leave no fingerprints, just grab the knob when the motor's running, prior to the crime.
I have a motor that Montegut gave me. It had been taken apart and I put it back together just to keep all parts there. But the little ball bearing is gone.
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What is the diameter? I have material that I have been using successfully in the Gen 1 motors. It was a larger size than I needed so I put it on the shelf. My material won't crumble apart.
A little over .4 inch, or 11mm.
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I have lots of .380 and .390 if you want to try it. It came out of Grainger and was supposed to be a smaller size. Everything they had was color-coded as the same size.