Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 05:31:01 pm

Title: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 05:31:01 pm: I want to replace the started with a gear-reduction starter. I tried one that was recommended elsewhere, but it does not fit. I'm fairly sure it should bolt up. No dice.

Which is the correct starter to use?
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: TopNotch on January 07, 2021, 06:20:48 pm: If you ask for a 1998 to 2000 Grand Am starter, you will get one that works, if you have a stock or stock-like (3.4) engine.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 06:25:35 pm: And the bracket on the back (left)? Does that transfer?

One of the bolts floats.

I saw this (https://www.amazon.com/STARTER-1999-05-PONTIAC-323-1396-12577949/dp/B007CA7DXS).
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: TopNotch on January 07, 2021, 06:31:34 pm: The bracket on the back of the big starter isn't needed on the little one, because it isn't heavy enough to require it. And the one in your link looks like it will work.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Wreck It Ralph on January 07, 2021, 06:38:16 pm: Same question for the 4 cylinder
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 06:54:26 pm: Dunno about the 4-cyl.

This (https://jpauto.com/2000-pontiac-grand-am-starter-motor-3-4l-6-cylinder/?gclid=CjwKCAiA_9r_BRBZEiwAHZ_v196pMZJqhH8OlEQCiHQo13xuEi5CPkXxA9ZYGO11l5qj8R18OWXQkRoCuWsQAvD_BwE) is closer to the one in the pic, above.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Raydar on January 07, 2021, 07:12:50 pm: This is the starter that I put on my Duke.
It's listed for a 3800, but will also work on a V6 (2.8, 3.4, 3.4 DOHC, 3800, etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AN5WAU/

I was actually kind of impressed. It came with graphs/charts from where they tested it. Displayed torque, current drain, and bla, bla, bla...
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 07:20:20 pm: Quote from: TopNotch on January 07, 2021, 06:31:34 pm
The bracket on the back of the big starter isn't needed on the little one, because it isn't heavy enough to require it. And the one in your link looks like it will work.

Ok. I got the JP Auto one, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 07, 2021, 07:29:59 pm: I have never seen that starter bracket on any Fiero.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 07, 2021, 07:37:42 pm: Well, give me a few days, and we'll see.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: NoMad on January 08, 2021, 08:36:29 pm: I used one for the 3800 as well. Works great.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 08, 2021, 08:56:38 pm: I have one on the ??? (forgot which one) that Scott gave me. I think it's the 86. Don't know what it came from. Sounds a little different but it works well.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: scottb on January 09, 2021, 07:21:37 am: Quote from: Fierofool on January 08, 2021, 08:56:38 pm
I have one on the ??? (forgot which one) that Scott gave me. I think it's the 86. Don't know what it came from. Sounds a little different but it works well.

That came off of a 2000 Malibu with a 3100, and yes we put that in the yellow 86
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 09:24:04 am: Other people have reported the different sound. We'll see. Maybe I won't like it.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 09, 2021, 09:34:50 am: The different sound might be due to clearance of the Bendix Gear and flywheel. Most probably do as I did and just use the starter shim that was with the old starter. Ideally, the clearance should be set to factory specs, but without being underneath the car to inspect, I'm not sure it can be done with the transmission bolted to the engine. So, I guess the only way would to have a number of different thickness shims and swap them out until the sound is most suitable.

Other than weight, what's the reported advantages of the starter?
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 09:49:19 am: Supposedly, less draw on the battery. Our starters are 30+ years old. I do not want my starter to give up the ghost when I'm out and about.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Raydar on January 09, 2021, 10:48:57 am: It is less draw on the battery. The motor itself is smaller and lighter than the direct drive starter motor.
Because of the gear reduction, it spins faster, but doesn't have to provide as much torque. That faster speed, combined with the gear drive, is probably why they sound different.

Both of my cars have gear reduction starters, and sound different from how they used to.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 10:55:36 am: Do you like the new sound?
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 09, 2021, 11:52:09 am: Personally, I didn't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 09, 2021, 11:56:41 am: I would not worry about the starters being 30 years old. I have a two 65+ year old starters in service. Borrowed time, possibly. But as they say your mileage may vary.

It's my understanding from similar threads on pennocks that the hub bub about gear starters was to make them spin faster and start like a new car. Clean contacts and large gauge wiring goes a long way to fast starting.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 12:02:47 pm: Mine fires right up.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: The Art Doctor on January 09, 2021, 12:06:36 pm: So does mine,if it ain't broke....
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Wreck It Ralph on January 09, 2021, 12:07:30 pm: Mine is a bit sluggish and I’m going to replace it and the alternator when I do the battery cables just as a precaution.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Raydar on January 09, 2021, 12:44:19 pm: Quote from: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 10:55:36 am
Do you like the new sound?

I do. It's a higher pitch, and just sounds less... labored? (But, as posted earlier, it may just be a function of new vs old.)
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 09, 2021, 03:33:29 pm: Mine has sounded better. My cables are good.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 09, 2021, 07:34:20 pm: If anyone needs a starter I have at least 3 V6 starters. Same as the L4 but with more torque.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Wreck It Ralph on January 09, 2021, 09:11:56 pm: Quote from: Fierofool on January 09, 2021, 07:34:20 pm
If anyone needs a starter I have at least 3 V6 starters. Same as the L4 but with more torque.

If we change to the new gear reduction starter then it’s the same starter for V6 or L4, correct? And the gear reduction started have more torque, correct?
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: Fierofool on January 09, 2021, 09:32:06 pm: The 4 and 6 cylinder starters physically look the same and bolt to either engine. The auto parts store once told me the V6 starter had more amperage/torque. Then the subject replacement starter has even more torque.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on January 24, 2021, 11:11:19 am: The new starter is in. It looks good, and works great!
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on February 05, 2021, 04:59:40 pm: Quote from: Fierofool on January 07, 2021, 07:29:59 pm
I have never seen that starter bracket on any Fiero.

My Fiero did not have that bracket, either.

One thing of note: the original starter had 3 bolt ears. The new one only has 2.
Title: Re: Gear reduction starter?
Post by: GTRS Fiero on March 09, 2021, 07:27:50 pm: The new starter certainly has a different sound. It doesn't seem to have to work as hard. I does still crank longer than I'd like.