Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => Tech Tips, Tech Questions => Topic started by: Donster on November 21, 2011, 12:44:25 pm

Title: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 21, 2011, 12:44:25 pm
After going thru most of the wires (total chaos hack-job by the PO) in the front of Shanine's car, and after replacing both motors, all relays and the actual headlight switch, I am presented with a new symptom:
The lights will go down, but not up!

Could this be wiring?
Anybody run into this before?

Any hints or tips are as always appreciated.

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on November 21, 2011, 07:06:27 pm
From what I saw in the front of that car today, normal troubleshooting won't solve the problem. 
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 21, 2011, 07:10:20 pm
From what I saw in the front of that car today, normal troubleshooting won't solve the problem. 
Torch? Sledgehammer? Crusher? ;D

Redraif had a good idea though. Create jumper cables from Anne's headlight motors to Shanine's and see if they act normal.

I might just do that, if only to eliminate some sources

\D

Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: TopNotch on November 21, 2011, 09:37:34 pm
If both headlights move in only one direction, it's most likely not the motors, or the relays associated with them. It's most likely the isolation relay, or the wiring associated with it (if the wiring is messed up).
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 09:26:49 am
Guess it is the wiring. Tried known good relays, same result

Shanine is getting a complete 1984 headlight harness from a PFF member, so that should take care of it (I'M hoping).

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: TopNotch on November 22, 2011, 09:48:28 am
Another possibility is the dash switch. You could try swapping that as well.
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 09:58:19 am
Been there - no change
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: meatloafsandwich on November 22, 2011, 12:52:09 pm
My dash switch does that, if I just push the button to turn them off, they will start to go down then pop back up! I have to hold the switch in the off position until they are all the way down. I said all that to say this: if you already replaced hers and that was not the problem, does that mean you have an extra for sale? ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 01:01:42 pm
............................ I said all that to say this: if you already replaced hers and that was not the problem, does that mean you have an extra for sale? ;D

More than one ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: meatloafsandwich on November 22, 2011, 01:43:39 pm
I should be home the beginning of December, looks like I gotta go shopping at "The Dons Garage" when I get home ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 01:55:42 pm
I should be home the beginning of December, looks like I gotta go shopping at "The Dons Garage" when I get home ;D

You know where we live and the door is always open ;D

Travel safe

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on November 22, 2011, 04:11:05 pm


You know where we live and the door is always open ;D

Travel safe

\D

Hope you sleep soundly.  I'll be there with my truck about 3 in the morning. 
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 04:46:43 pm
Bring it!

Goldie sleeps very lightly and usually on the first floor or in the garage.

But then again, why waste your time Charlie? I have nothing that you don't at least have double. ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 22, 2011, 05:42:30 pm
I should be home the beginning of December, looks like I gotta go shopping at "The Dons Garage" when I get home ;D

Robert, just saw on ebay, they have a plethora of headlight switches for cheap. Between $ 10 and 16, including shipping.
So add up what it would cost you in fuel to come over to my place and maybe reconsider. ;D

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Duchess on November 22, 2011, 08:01:36 pm
Quote from: Fierofool link=topic=945.msg8364#msg8364 date=132199626
[/quote

Hope you sleep soundly.  I'll be there with my truck about 3 in the morning.

Charlie, you can take whatever you want as long as you take the trash too  ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on November 22, 2011, 09:56:10 pm
I never said anything about loading up.  I was going to deliver.  Besides, I don't want Don. :D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 23, 2011, 06:29:27 am
That hurt

Setting booby-traps as we speak
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on November 23, 2011, 07:44:02 am
All in jest, Don.  If you weren't a friend, I couldn't have said that.  Same way we razzed Tim. 
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 23, 2011, 08:08:02 am
All in jest, Don.  If you weren't a friend, I couldn't have said that.  Same way we razzed Tim. 

As if I didn't know that Charlie

I never said anything about loading up.  I was going to deliver.  Besides, I don't want Don. :D

Booby-traps removed (for now), can't wait to see what you deliver - I can provide a wish list ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: meatloafsandwich on November 23, 2011, 12:37:32 pm
sure I can buy from e-bay, but I would much rather support a fellow club member.......besides, I am pretty good at setting booby traps ;)
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on November 23, 2011, 05:31:00 pm
Check out this link from our friend Oliver...

http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/headlight.html

...and remember, drinking can cause memory loss and, worse still, memory loss.
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 23, 2011, 06:07:20 pm
sure I can buy from e-bay, but I would much rather support a fellow club member.......

While I appreciate that - I was doing the same ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on November 23, 2011, 06:13:31 pm
Check out this link from our friend Oliver...

http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/headlight.html

Thanks, but been there, done that, found additional help here:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119883.html

Turns out, Shanine's wiring is totally messed up. I identified at least two bad wires and I'm going with a complete harness swap. It would take me forever to find all the bad wires/splices in this mess, as Charlie can attest to.

\D

Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: redraif on December 02, 2011, 05:46:24 pm
Yipes... I KNOW about previous owners & the bad splices!  Too many to solder I guess.  It worked for my hacked up harness... Again, wish you were closer!
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 02, 2011, 05:50:13 pm
Offer still stands about German cake and coffee. You just come over and park yours next to Shaninen's for about two hours and when it's time to leave, miraculously, Shanine's will work and yours won't ;D

Kidding asside, her complete harness just came in the mail today. It even included the two-speed fan relay, isolater relay and headlight relays.

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: redraif on December 02, 2011, 06:12:17 pm
Nice... my next wiring task is the SLOW windows, radiator switch that does not work, my dim gauges & zero illumination A/c panel
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 02, 2011, 06:14:50 pm
Look for bad ground. When I replaced my ground straps, the windows gained tremendous momentum and all my lights got brighter, to include the ones in the dash

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 17, 2011, 06:25:38 pm
OK,
I replaced the entire front harness with a known good one for the 84 that wasn't hacked up, but now ......
No ignition lights, no running lights, no cranking, nothing.
Did I foul something up ???
Somethig specific I should check? All fuses and relais are good. Known good motors.

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on December 17, 2011, 08:01:56 pm
Did you re-install the battery?


Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Maybe you'd be better off letting Anne fix it.

Oops. I did it again.


I can come by tomorrow and assist troubleshooting if you'd like (for real). ;D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 17, 2011, 08:07:28 pm
Coffee and cake can be served ;D

You wouldn't mind? Always appreciated and welcome.

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on December 17, 2011, 08:31:43 pm
Name the time.
Coffee is good!
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 17, 2011, 08:38:43 pm
I'm home all day, your call

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on December 17, 2011, 09:31:14 pm
High Noon
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 17, 2011, 09:36:36 pm
Roger that Roger ;D

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 18, 2011, 10:04:22 pm
Big shout-out to Roger! ;D

Thanks buddy, you da man!

update with all the issues Roger found will follow

Lights are BOTH working now (on/off/up/down), as are all running and rear lights, and no more smoke coming from the dimmer!

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 20, 2011, 08:19:02 pm
First symptom was that neither light would go up
Second symptom was that after turning on the headlights and back off, they would only dim, but not turn off
Third symptom was that when turning the dimmer switch all the way up, it started smoking

Replaced entire harness and relays (<Don)
Found that the PO had soldered the orange and red cables together at the light switch
DRL in the front wouldn't work
One motor clicked, other one: Nothing (Thats why the battery was drained)
Other than that, same symptoms as mentioned above
Took out the dimmer transistor from under the dash and cleaned it (<Roger) No more dimmer issues and lights would shut off
Ran jumper cables all over the place (<Roger), I lost track after about the third jumper and just sat in a corner and drank coffee, as I was totally lost! ;D
Checked all connections, cleaned one barrel connector (<Roger), motor went up and down, but clicked
Replaced both motors, replaced all connectors from a known good motor that has bump-stop issues with the connectors from a known bad motor (Cover with the 3 screws)
Cleaned sockets on the DRLs

TADA! All working again!

Thanks again Roger!

So Charlie, I know have 3 first generation headlight motor candidates for rebuilding and have ordered the rebuild kits for two of them.

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 20, 2011, 10:05:23 pm
Loose battery cable?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Nope, far from it

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Tha Driver on December 20, 2011, 10:09:19 pm
I don't know what happened.  I clicked on the "latest post" link & got the page before Roger helped you fix it.
Checked the thread after I posted & realized it, & deleted my post. You were just too quick...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts (http://angelonearth.net/customfiberglass/)
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 11:43:33 am
OK, it seems that I am cursed with these 84s!
After getting Anne's 84 figured out and more or less fixed, Shanine's is now starting to baffle me.
Roger came over and got the headlight issues straightened out.
Today we had a police officer come and verify the VIN for us so we could go and register the car before Christmas for Shanine and.........

.........won't fire up!

No fuel from the TBI and even if I pour alcohol down the TB, won't fire up. Have fuel with pressure behind the fuel filter, pump runs just fine.

I've checked all the wires and fuses and have tried three (3 !!!) different computers. It just cranks and cranks but nothing.

???

Anybody have some advice?

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 01:09:43 pm
I recall reading somewhere that if the tach doesn't move while cranking, it is a specific issue, or a symptom that indicates the cause.
This is the issue here, Shanine's tach doesn't move while cranking.

Any ideas?

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Tha Driver on December 23, 2011, 01:21:51 pm
I recall reading somewhere that if the tach doesn't move while cranking, it is a specific issue, or a symptom that indicates the cause.
This is the issue here, Shanine's tach doesn't move while cranking.

Any ideas?

\D
I think if the tach doesn't move, it's the ignition module.
EDIT: Might just be a loose wire on the distributor...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts (http://angelonearth.net/customfiberglass/)
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 01:38:56 pm
Cleaned the contacts on the ign-coil, now the tach responds, but still no spark or fuel

Edit: Nix that remark, tach is NOT responding
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 05:36:03 pm
Replaced ICM and pickup module, still won't fire up
Have spark now but injector won't pulse
Also not getting the 5 V to the TBS

So, shorted pin 10 & 15 on the white ECM connector to the cig-lighter, as it was not getting constant 12 V on those, which somehow get the ECM to shoot the 5 V to the TBS
Now she fires up and runs.

Can anybody think of why it's not getting 12 V constant hot there, and any ramifications of hot-wiring it?

Thnx

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on December 23, 2011, 07:17:08 pm
Possibly intermittant power from the ignition switch.
I'll have to look at the schematic again.

I wouldn't 'hot wire' it tho. That may present a hazardous condition.
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 07:57:56 pm
Thanks Roger.
I will actually follow your advice and not hot-wire it, because .......

........FOUND IT!

Fusible link was cut out by the PO and he/she/it spliced a wire that goes from the alternator directly to the distributor (84s only), then disappears into the harness back to the ECM

Shielding right under the TBI had come off, hence blank wire shorting out against the engine block.

Tagged and running again! ;D

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 23, 2011, 08:03:28 pm
One issue remains:

Driver's side turnsignal doesn't blink. Emergency flashers work on all 4 corners, but only passenger's side turnsignal flashes.

Relay?

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on December 23, 2011, 11:23:55 pm
It could be the flasher.  The turn signals and emergency flashers have separate flasher relays, so while one system shows that the bulbs are good, the other might make you think a bulb is bad.   
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 24, 2011, 12:55:44 am
Are the left and right signal relays identical, or is it just one relay for both sides?
And where is it/are they located? Behind the driver's side on the firewall?

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Roger on December 24, 2011, 08:17:47 am
The turn signal flasher should be located on the steering wheel support, left side, near the fuse panel.
The emergency flasher should be near the blue dingy box on the passenger side.

They are interchangeable so you can troubleshoot by swapping them.
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: GrannyLinda on December 24, 2011, 09:12:44 am
You could always use hand signals. Remember those?
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Donster on December 24, 2011, 09:14:36 am
You could always use hand signals. Remember those?

Yeah, but that frostbite during winter months really gets to ya!

;D

\D
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: 88_4mula on January 02, 2012, 07:00:30 pm
Had fun working on this one.
Probed and probed with the meter.
Then read the wiring diagram for the lights.
Did you know that the front marker lights are wire in series ,power in to marker lights then out to the front marker/running light then  to ground.
That said, if the ground on the front dual element light is bad,..it will back feed through the power side of the dual element bulb, up the power side of the turning light and do all kind of wierd stuff.

We replaced the front left dual light socket and all was fixed.
I love trouble shooting electrical issues!
I miss doing that...did it for 20+ years now I embroidery and screenprint?...

Let me know if you'll need anything else.
Title: Re: 84 Headlight Issues
Post by: Fierofool on January 02, 2012, 07:31:29 pm
You could always use hand signals. Remember those?

He does use hand signals.  Every time he does, it becomes a Fight or Flight situation.  :)