Georgia Fiero Club Forum

All Things Fiero => General Fiero Discussion => Topic started by: l82roadster on November 22, 2008, 01:02:45 pm

Title: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 22, 2008, 01:02:45 pm

I have just become the owner of an 86 SE. I am a demolition contractor in the metro Atlanta area and my 86 was sitting in the driveway of a house I am scheduled to demolish in East Cobb county.My car has been sitting since 1992 and has 62,000 miles. I know it has a v6 but haven't really looked into what it will take to get driving again.Now all I have to do is get my 67 ski nautique stored somwhere(also a barn find that I am restoring) so I have space next to my vette to work on it.The ironic thin is I looked at these cars when new and decided on a cavalier z24.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on November 22, 2008, 02:42:39 pm

If you need technical help, we have experts. And feel free to come to our club's Christmas party, even if your car isn't ready yet. A car sitting for that long will probably need some work.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on November 22, 2008, 02:56:05 pm

Welcome to our little niche in the auto world.  Sounds like a good find, if the car was only driven for 6 years, though apparently, it had some problems if it was parked.  

I've never pulled one out of storage that's been sitting that long, but 2 obvious things that need to be drained are the oil pan and the fuel tank.  I think I'd pull all the plugs, put some auto trans fluid, Lucas Oil or Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder, let it sit for a few days, and try to turn the engine over by hand.  If a manual, put it in one of the higher gears and try to move the car forward by hand.  If an automatic, you'd need to put a wrench on the crank and turn it.  I think I'd do that at least once a day for maybe a week, rotating it maybe a half dozen times each day.  For a manual, you're probably going to have some issues with the clutch master and slave cylinders, too.

After you've changed the oil and got the engine rotating smoothly, pull the distributor, and drive the oil pump with a power drill to get oil circulated throughout the engine.  You may have to fashion a drive rod to fit into the oil pump.  Next, I'd probably replace the screens on the fuel pump while the tank's out, and replace the fuel filter.  

In all probability, the front brake pistons are stuck.  The 86's used phenolic pistons which were bad to stick after sitting for a while.  Often, the rear ones work just fine.  

Our club is fortunate to have 2 members who work on Fieros, and they often have replacement used or rebuilt parts on hand.  One of them is over in Douglas County.  We also have a cash account set up with Main Auto Parts which will give you a discount on new parts.  

Don't be afraid to ask for help.

Charlie
VP-Georgia Fiero Club

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 24, 2008, 09:38:11 pm

Thanks Y'all.I was a chevrolet technician in the early eighties,But I am sure I will have tech questions.Looking at the production figures Pontiac made quite a few of these little cars.I think I saw 32,000 Se's were built in 86. I talked to the guy that used to own the car, and he told me he parked it because it had electrical issues. I had just graduated with a four year degree in electronics when I went into Auto mechanics school, so in 1982 when the old mechanics were scratching their heads I was diving head first into Computer Command control systems and the first throttle body injection systems with ease (I was also a diesel mechanic working on 5.7'sand 6.2's). I left the chevrolet dealership and went into a John Deere industrial dealer in 85 where I started as a mechanic and worked my way up into branch management and sales. Now I own a demolition company in Metro Atlanta. I make all kinds of interesting finds in the demolition business. In september a found my 67 Ski Nautique in need of a ground up rebuild , but my nautique will be on the back burner until I get this little jewel purring. I also have a numbers matching'74 Corvette 4 speed posi equipped L82 Roadster. I'll let y'allknow what I find when I get into this little project car.
 Charlie, I wasn't aware of the phenolic pistons, I guess this means I will not need to bore the engine as I wouldn't think the phenolic would wear the bores.The car is an automatic so I imagine it has a 175 trans.I am in Paulding so I am close to Douglas county.I imagine I will have to go thru the calipers,and make sure that the slides are nice and free.Can the fuel tank be drained in the car(I doubt it) I will probably change all of the fluids, and put some dexron in the sparg plug holes and get it to soaking before I even attempt to turn it over at the crankshaft.Dexron or any ATF for that matter is an excellent cleaner/solvent. I will do a compression test before i install new plugs. Thanks for the warm welcome ,I am sure that I will be asking lots of tech questions pertaining to this little poncho.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on November 24, 2008, 10:24:49 pm

Hey, it's the front brake calipers that have the phenolic pistons.  The engine has aluminum pistons.  All Automatic Fieros were equipped with the TH125 transmission.  Some have installed later model FWD electronic transmissions, especially in the 3800SC, LS and LT1 and 4.9 engine conversions. 

I've heard of people jumpering the fuel pump and pumping out through a disconnected line, but you can't pump it out through the filler due to the anti-spill device.  It'd be best to remove the tank anyway so you could replace the pickup screens and wash the tank of all debris. 

ATF is indeed a good solvent, but one caution;  if it has silicone in it, you could possible foul the O2 sensor and the catalytic converter upon startup.  Diesel fuel is a good alternative, but if left too long, as you know, will absorb moisture.  Kerosene, not mineral spirits, works well, too. 

As for the calipers, Don Hulse usually keeps a couple of sets of rebuilt calipers on hand.  Relatively cheap, plus your old ones for core.  He's the one that lives out in Douglasville.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 25, 2008, 12:21:21 am

Charlie,I think the fuel tank removal is in order. I have worked on chrysler calipers with composite pistons and they would swell and stick, is this what happens with the phenolic pistons? I have read that the fiero shares brake components with the chevette.
I will pull them an check. Generally when disk brake calipers seize it is due to the o-rings in the calipers getting gummed up with brake dust(with floating calipers).  Thanks for your input, I will fill you in when I start getting into it.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on November 25, 2008, 07:55:49 am

Swelling could be part of the problem, but also moisture and sediment settles in the bottom of the piston bore and may cause the piston to tilt slightly.  The brake dust would only affect the sliders.  I don't know how the Chevette brake parts compare to the Fiero, but some are using the early 90's Grand Am front brakes as a replacement, and that gives them vented disks up front.  I believe the only thing you need do is to have a machine shop part the disk off your front hub, and install the Grand Am Disc over the hub, and the caliper is a direct bolt-on, having only to grind off one small piece of the caliper.  Fierostore sells the whole setup, ready to bolt on.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 26, 2008, 06:30:00 pm

Charlie, I aired the tires up yesterday and tryed to roll it with three people pushing and it wouldn't budge, so I hooked my John Deere 200 to it with a chain and drug it the tires rolled and I was able to roll it by myself but it has sat in the same place for 17 years. I will take the calipers apart and check the pistons for fit. The veery first thing I plan to do is pressure wash everything. The lock for the rear hatch wont turn with the key so some wd40 is in order.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: oldone on November 26, 2008, 07:04:57 pm

suggest you try PB BLASTER if the wd40 doesn't work that stuff is awesome, available at most auto parts stores - advance auto parts definitely has it ,  good luck   oldone in c'ville

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on November 26, 2008, 07:14:49 pm

And, if the battery is dead, and you can't get into the engine bay, I have a device that plugs into the cigarette lighter.  It will allow you to activate the trunk release, if you have one, without having to remove it from the instrument panel.  You may have to try both Advance and AutoZone to get the caliper rebuild kits.  I believe each carries one, but not the other.  When you rebuild the calipers, don't refill with the new DOT 5 fluid.  The master cylinder rubber isn't compatible.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on November 26, 2008, 07:37:51 pm

Is the car an automatic or manual?

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 27, 2008, 11:21:13 am

Rob, The car is an automatic. Has anyone installed t-tops in a non t top car are the parts to do it available? are there any roadster/convertible conversion kits for the fiero? I am looking at putting a small block chevy engine in the car, but I want an open car. This little car has got some real cool possibilities.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 27, 2008, 11:25:14 am

Quote from: OLDONE on November 26, 2008, 07:04:57 pm

suggest you try PB BLASTER if the wd40 doesn't work that stuff is awesome, available at most auto parts stores - advance auto parts definitely has it ,  good luck   oldone in c'ville

Thanks Oldone, I was thinking of that this morning, I have a can of pb Blaster, I used Pb when I redid the suspension on my vette and always keep a can on hand for hard to remove fasteners, or frozen up pieces.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on November 27, 2008, 01:33:53 pm

Quote from: l82roadster on November 27, 2008, 11:21:13 am

Rob, The car is an automatic. Has anyone installed t-tops in a non t top car are the parts to do it available? are there any roadster/convertible conversion kits for the fiero? I am looking at putting a small block chevy engine in the car, but I want an open car. This little car has got some real cool possibilities.

There used to be a company that sold a convertible conversion kit. The most important thing you need is a frame brace to put under the car.
You might want to contact V8 Archie (http://v8archie.com/). They make roadster re-bodies.
Check Pennock's or Ebay from time to time for T-top "kits" (usually removed from a junk T-top car). Prepare to pay a lot. They're rare, and in demand. Practically no new t-top parts are available anymore.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 27, 2008, 01:51:42 pm

The roadster would be the way to go then. I imagine this car is unibody with a rear subframe. Dos the kit come with prefabricated frame rails? I would imagine the car would need to be taken completely apart. I plan on putting a v8 in also so I will do all those mods at once. First I am going to get this barn find back to working order then mods and paint.I am going to let my daughter drive it for a little while in stock trim.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on November 27, 2008, 02:33:04 pm

The car is a "space frame" with a separate "cradle" for the engine and drive components. The space frame can be driven without the plastic panels on. The entire space frame contributes to the overall strength of the car, so if you remove any part of it, such as the top, you have to brace the rest.
V8 Archie sells frame stiffening parts.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on November 30, 2008, 12:24:55 pm

I got my fiero home and the front brakes are locked down, the calipers are coming off now. I can't get the front trunk open and the cable seems to be frozen up. How can I open the front trunk without tearing too much up? The rear trunk (engine cover) key will not turn I sprayed a bunch of pb Blaster in the lock cylinder and it still won't turn. How do I get the engine cover open without a key? The drivers side door lock was also seized but the pb blaster made it turn. I don't want ruin the hood and trunk lids getting them open.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: oldone on November 30, 2008, 03:43:27 pm

i guess i would disconnect the release handle from the cable on the front hood and try to spray some lubricant down the cable (not easy) and then re-attach the handle and then work the handle back and forth, maybe it will work its way loose. on the rear lid are you sure thats the right key for that lid, does it open the doors? i bought an 85gt and got 3 keys , 1 ignition and 2 trunk and door keys. 1 trunk key didn't work at all and the other one just barely go in the lock, after some lube and lots of turning it finaly opened. the only other thing i can think of is possibly prying the end of one of the grills, the end by the window that slips over the pins.       good luck     oldone in c'ville

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on November 30, 2008, 06:54:39 pm

On the front hood they made a backup cable that should be mounted towards the back of the release lever. You'll probably have to use plier to pull it. On the rear trunk you should have a button on the right side of the steering wheel that's a trunk release. If the battery is dead you'll have to plug something like a phone charger into the cigarette lighter and split the wires and connect them to a battery, then you can pop the trunk.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on November 30, 2008, 06:56:19 pm

There is an emergency release cable for the front hood. Look under the dash at the release lever and locate a small wire with a bob on the end of it that looks sort of like a fishing weight. The bob will usually be secured in a plastic clip. Remove it and pull towards the back of the car. If the other cable is frozen/broken, that should open the hood. If the latch is frozen, it won't

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on November 30, 2008, 06:59:15 pm

If the front hood latch handle moves, but won't release the lid, it may be that the cable is broken.  There's a backup cable in the system.  Kneal down on the ground and look at the release handle.  There will be a cable curled up with a long metal end piece snapped into a clip.  Remove it from the clip and pull it with a pair of pliers.  If the latch is working, this will release it.  

For the engine deck lid, you can't get into the trunk any way but with the key or a remote release.  Breaking into the grills will only break the grills and give you access to the battery or air filter.  If you can't get the key to work, then it's best to call a locksmith.  I'm guessing that you don't have a remote trunk release on the upper right side of the instrument pod?  If you do, and you just have a dead battery, let me know and I can get you into the engine compartment.

Edit: for what they said about the release cable.  I have a device that plugs into the cigarette lighter and powers up the car.  Also, you can use a 9V battery on the trunk release switch and get it to release.

Edit again:  Here's a how-to with pics on jumping the release switch.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/085536.html

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 01, 2008, 05:21:07 pm

Thanks Y'all I got the trunk/engine cover with a battery charger, I found the window sticker in the storage compartment in the back.The car was sold new at John Mcdonald in Roswell and stikcered at $13,700.
The front hood ,I am not so lucky I had already pulled the emergency cable and it is stuck in the back position but the latch is still locked.The sides of the front hood are loose but in the center it is locked solid.I imagine the latch is in the center.I took the driver side wheel well (plastic) out but there is no access.I don't want to tear the hood up trying to get it loose, any ideas gentlemen? The front brakes are locked down, so I imagine the pistons have swelled.I will take them off once I get the trunk lid open( so I can access the master cylinder).

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on December 01, 2008, 06:20:21 pm

If you'll take a prybar and pry up on the hood at the latch carefully you can take a 1/4" drive extension with a wiggle joint on it and I think it's an 8 mm socket and remove the cable assembly from the latch assembly. There's only one bolt that holds it on, but after you get the bolt out you can push it towards the drivers side and it should come off the latch. Then you can take a long flat screwdriver and trip the release lever.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 01, 2008, 06:24:58 pm

Thanks Rob I will try that.In the event that it doesn't work can I remove the front clip with out the hood open? There are a lot of leaves and debris in that area probably causing the latch to not open.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on December 01, 2008, 06:30:40 pm

No.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on December 01, 2008, 06:37:27 pm

A shop vac works wonders on the leaves. And you might want to have a magnet handy when you go to remove the cable from the latch. I usually knock my socket off atleast a half a dozen times. You'll more than likely bend the back side of the latch opening just a little but you can straighten it up once you get the hood open. If you need a new releae cable I should have one or somebody down there will have an extra.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 02, 2008, 06:05:35 pm

Thanks Rob, I will try the prybar idea.If I can get to the latch I may be able to trip it with a screwdriver.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 06, 2008, 03:44:57 pm

I got the hood open by putting 2x4's under each side of the hood and pulling on the cable, I need a new cable. And the front brake pistons were swelled I have one out the other one is still stuck in the caliper.Can I buy just the pistons?

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on December 06, 2008, 04:30:40 pm

Much easier to buy rebuilt calipers. They are not that expensive.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on December 06, 2008, 06:19:57 pm

I think you can get aluminum pistons for them to replace the phenolic pistons.  The rebuild kits are available at the local auto parts stores.  Like Pat says, you could probably get a rebuilt caliper for cheap.  Also, Don Hulse usually keeps a few rebuilt sets on hand.  He just takes yours as a core so he can rebuild them and have them ready when someone needs one.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 08, 2008, 11:26:54 pm

I found Steel pistons at Rock Auto for $11.00 a piece. Next the gas tank is coming out.we cranked the car over on Saturday. How available is a Gt rear clip, I would like to put the gt sail panels and rear roof and a sunroof in the car,I really would like t-tops but unless there are aftermarket t tops I doubt(looking at production numbers) that I will find a t-top donor car.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on December 08, 2008, 11:43:16 pm

Rear fastback cllips are out there, but you usually don't get a good set of windows with them.  Aside from the clip, you'd need the GT tail lights and rear wiring harness, plus some other internal mounts and panels that are different than the notchback.  There was an 87 with the rear clip and harness down here near me.  Don't know if it's still there, though.  I can check if you want.

ThaDriver did have an 88 t-top he was parting out.  Don't know if he still has it.  I think he said it had been sold.  Unless they've been kept inside, most t-top gaskets are in poor condition.  Some of them aren't available any more.  Topnotch had a good article on making some of them.  I think it's in the tech section here in the bulletin board.  RobsFieros has several roof sections.  I believe he told me today that he had the outer as well as the headliner board.  You'd probably be happier in the long run with a sunroof, at least when it rains.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: TopNotch on December 09, 2008, 11:40:15 am

See how to make your own p-seals here (http://gafiero.org/p_seals.asp). The other seals are going to be much harder.
My t-tops don't leak in the rain, but they do in a car wash, where the water comes from the side at high force.
My sunroof car used to leak in the rain, until I drilled drain holes. There's a write-up about that on Pennock's somewhere.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Fierofool on December 09, 2008, 02:41:12 pm

I just saw that ThaDriver on this forum has a complete fastback conversion.  Contact him if you're interested.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 09, 2008, 07:09:24 pm

Cool guy's Thanks for the info.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Tha Driver on December 09, 2008, 08:06:52 pm

I have the fastback peices, & still have the T-Top too. I've been talked out of using it for target pratice & parting it out, but I would still part it out if I could sell the top clip & enough other parts to get my money back. Or you can DRIVE the whole thing home for $1700. Interesting trades considered.
You can email me at ImThaDriver at yahoo.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Why do they call it reckless driving if it causes wrecks?

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 18, 2008, 08:35:36 pm

Driver, I wish I had some money right now to buy that car.I removed my fuel tank last night and it was full of what looks like rust or sand. I am going to try to mix some sodium carbonate and hot water and filling the tank, attaching a battery charger and using electrolosys to get the rust out. Anybody have good ideas to clean a fuel tank out.

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on December 18, 2008, 08:50:32 pm

..................................................BOOM............................................................................

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: oldone on December 18, 2008, 09:07:51 pm

rob----you bad---hahahahahaha

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: RobsFieros on December 18, 2008, 09:14:55 pm

l82roadster what color is your 86 SE?

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: Tha Driver on December 18, 2008, 10:28:32 pm

Quote from: l82roadster on December 18, 2008, 08:35:36 pm

Driver, I wish I had some money right now to buy that car.I removed my fuel tank last night and it was full of what looks like rust or sand. I am going to try to mix some sodium carbonate and hot water and filling the tank, attaching a battery charger and using electrolosys to get the rust out. Anybody have good ideas to clean a fuel tank out.

Do you have anything to trade? Interesting cars; tools; video game consoles, controllers, memory chips, & games; guns; motorcycle parts; home & auto electronics; - as long as it's legal.
I would look for another gas tank. You should be able to find one; Rob may have one. I sold the last two I had.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Title: Re: 86 Fiero SE
Post by: l82roadster on December 20, 2008, 04:36:50 pm

Rob it's black with a grey interior. I will be doing a repaint to black.