Suspension refresh

[Karidan]

Went to put on my front wheels and noticed the ball joints were worn. Went to order ball joints, turned into ball joints and other stuff. Other stuff turned into the whole suspension. I had planned on driving to the next meeting but this will probably take me more than just a couple of weekends to finish. If anyone wants a writeup or pictures of anything I'm doing let me know. I had planned on swapping in my 88 cradle this go around but found the unplanned brake upgrade I would have to do to make it safe to drive would require more money and a new set of wheels 

front upper and lower ball joints
front inner and outer tie rods
rear lower ball joints
rear tie rods and ends
rear hubs
front wheel bearings
all poly bushings, end links etc.
engine/trans mounts
4 lowering springs
aluminum cradle bushings
shocks
struts
rear camber kit

also, flow matched pintle injectors (having idle problems with the 3.4ohv disc injectors)
new clutch kit and flywheel
all new hoses



At least I'll have a cradle to bolt the L32 to until that fateful day 5 years from now when I can afford the rest of the stuff I need for that swap 

[f85gtron]

Looks like Christmas!  Which clutch are you going with?

[Fierofool]

A writeup on anything is good but the things most might do are ball joints and tie rod ends. 

All the poly upgrades will really improve handling but it also increases cabin noise.  The aluminum cradle bushings will really make it noisy.  Also, I see the Eibach's.  I don't know what setup you have planned, but I don't believe 88 rear Eibach's are being made any more and earlier rear springs won't fit an 88 rear.  A writeup on that setup might be good.

[Karidan]

Clutch I ordered awhile back, Luk I think.

Handling is mostly what I'm after- not intending to DD this. When I swap the cradle I'll go with the Arraut coilovers and maybe drop spindles in the front with new front  stock springs. Mine has the WS4 ones from the factory hopefully FS will still sell them when I'm ready. Not excited about extra cabin noise but it occurred to me they would have to really loud to hear them over my exhaust. My exhaust note in 4th is difficult to hold a conversation over 

[CowsPatoot]

Just throwing out some things to stir the pot...

Consider the differences between rubber and poly bushings.  Rubber will deflect more, which helps to absorb bumps.  Poly is stiffer, which will help to hold the proper alignment under stress, which will improve performance.

Now...take a look at the design of the lower front A-arm.  Notice that the front of the A-arm is straight, and the back angles steeply to the back of the car.  This means that the alignment is controlled by the front bushing...and the rear bushing takes all of the stress of bumps.

See where I am going with this?  If you do Poly in the front, and rubber in the rear, theory states that you get the best of both worlds with minimal negatives.  Of course, this is theory until someone does it.  I intended to do it when I rebuilt the convertible suspension a couple years ago...but through a miscommunication, the outer bushing casing was removed from both the front and back, forcing me to go with rubber for the entire lower arm.  So I am running rubber for the entire lower a-arm, and poly everywhere else.  I am very happy with the way it rides, and don't notice any extra noise or harshness from the rebuild.

Like I said....just stirring the pot.  I can't really suggest that you jump into this head first when it is only theory.

Edit to add:  I am still using stock WS6 springs with KYB shocks and struts.

[Karidan]

Sounds like a good theory. I'm going to see how it does with the poly first since I'm more or less stuck with it For what its worth the KYB shocks I'll be installing in the back are GR2's which are supposed to be a good bit softer then the Gas-A-Just ones I'm running up front. This wasn't by design however- seems these are the only ones KYB makes for the Fiero nowadays.

When I got the car back in 2009 it was out of necessity since I needed a daily driver and had $1500. The money I did spend went into the making the engine and brakes reliable and other things that allowed the car to run. The suspension was an afterthought. The entire time I've had the car it's had the original suspension, even shocks. Heck even the tires were installed in 1993. I don't really have a great driving Fiero to compare it to as a baseline since mine is the only one I've ever ridden in so I'm hoping that even the harsh ride I'm in for will seem pleasant compared to what I'm used to. I'm used the car seeming to 'float' at highway speeds and I've had it swap ends on me several times.    If the road is wet I'm used to the rear of the car sliding out 20 degrees or more in place before it takes off because of the old tires (the extra torque of the 3.4 doesn't help). I'm used to u-turns becoming 270 degree turns regularly. On a hard launch (when I can get traction) I'm used to the front end lifting like its trying to pick up the wheels while the passenger side rear drops. I can tell much of the power is being used to compress the springs. The first time my wife drove it (with me in the passenger seat) she spun it out 180 degrees making a left turn out of a gas station parking lot.

By the way, I don't know if my 2.8 was in really bad shape or what but switching to the 3.4 made the car feel unbelievably quick (when I could get traction). I mean like 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder type of difference.

[pgackerman]

Just found this article on Fiero suspensions: Fiero - Herb Adams VSE "All Fired Up" - Article from Herb Adams on improving the Pontiac Fiero.
http://pontiacperformance.net/TechArticles/media/Fiero_HerbAdams_ALL-FIRED-UP.pdf

[GTRS Fiero]

What happened to this car, and the OP?

[Fierofool]

He hasn't logged into the forum since July 19, 2016 at 12 noon.  This thread was his last post. 

[GTRS Fiero]

Yes, I saw his stats.  Does he still show up, or did he drop out after this?  I know some people just faded off the forum.

[Fierofool]

What you see here is all I recall as being all we ever saw of him.  I don't think he ever made a physical appearance unless he was the one who showed up at the first Sonic cruise in to get the scissor door kit from f85gtron. 

Edit to say that after taking a closer look at the pictures,  I think that was someone else who came to the cruise in.  He drove a white 86SE.  I don't think Kanga has ever shown his face.  I did correspond with him, but I don't remember if he is local, or not.