Car won't start again HELP!!

[jwrape]

Well, some of you might remember that I thought my Fuel Pump went bad a little bit back and replaced it and then still couldn't get it started until I added oil cause it was a quart low.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/117066.html
Well now it's not a quart low and it stopped again.
I do know the Fuel pump relay is NOT getting a signal from the ECU to turn on the Fuel pump so NO gas. I can hot wire it at the Relay and it will work. I also have changed the relay out with 4 other ones that work.
I know for a fact there is just no signal from the ECU to turn on the Fuel pump. The fuse it good. EVERYTHING is good.
Is it the ECU or is there something else?

[Fierofool]

If you'd like to borrow one of my ECU's to check it, you're welcome.  I don't remember, is yours a manual?  If so, my ECU will work.

[jwrape]

If you'd like to borrow one of my ECU's to check it, you're welcome.  I don't remember, is yours a manual?  If so, my ECU will work.

Mine's a Auto, but thank anyways. It does sound like it has some sort of issue. I wonder why it would stop that signal and not affect anything else.

[Donster]

Our Duke wouldn't start once, just like yours, because we were low on oil, but once it failed to start also, because we were low on coolant

\D

[Fierofool]

Please forgive this old brain of mine, but something's rolling around that tells me Ashby had a similar problem and unbelievably it turned out to be the ignition control module.  Everything in it was good except for 1 circuit.  I believe there's a signal from through the ICM that tells the ECU to let the pump run. 

Question:  When you turn the ignition on, does the pump prime?  If so the circuit's good.  Even without a signal from the ECU, the relay will shut off the pump.  Try putting the old ICM back in and see what happens. 

Will the car start and run as long as you keep the ECU jumpered?

[jwrape]

Please forgive this old brain of mine, but something's rolling around that tells me Ashby had a similar problem and unbelievably it turned out to be the ignition control module.  Everything in it was good except for 1 circuit.  I believe there's a signal from through the ICM that tells the ECU to let the pump run. 

Question:  When you turn the ignition on, does the pump prime?  If so the circuit's good.  Even without a signal from the ECU, the relay will shut off the pump.  Try putting the old ICM back in and see what happens. 

Will the car start and run as long as you keep the ECU jumpered?

The ICM is new, but I guess it could have an issue. The pump does not prime when it's acting this way but it has a little gas in it to kick over but not start. In otherwords it acts like it wants to start but just won't because there is not enough fuel pressure. It's the exact saem symptoms as before when I was stranded at Home Depot. Something is causing the signal line to not have power to the relay.

The only thig I can think of is that I wired the Green/white wire at the ECM to a grounded switch to turn on the fan manually. Although the fan stays on by itself now with the A/C compressor mounted, it's still there and I have used it before all this happened.
I wonder if I fried something with that Ground connection. I did soldier and wrap the connections properly but who knows.

[Fierofool]

Even though you have a new ICM doesn't mean it's a good one.  Try this:

Remove the distributor cap and the 2 screws that hold the ICM in place.  Leaving the pigtail at the back connected and the small weatherpack pigtail connected to the ICM, disconnect the larger weatherpack connector.  Lift the module up so that you have a clear view into the module terminal.  This is so that you don't short anything while testing. 

With the ignition ON, probe the 4 terminals with a test light being careful not to probe two terminals at once.  One terminal should give you voltage with the ignition ON.  When you find that terminal, turn the ignition OFF and re-probe the terminal.  It should show no voltage.  This is your Fuel Pump Run signal to the ECM.  If you don't get voltage, then that circuit is dead.  You can still have spark, but the ECM won't be triggered to run the pump. 

Forgot to say--don't use a multimeter.  This is a low voltage circuit.  Use a test light only and it should light if there's voltage.  I think it's the first terminal from the left.

[jwrape]

Even though you have a new ICM doesn't mean it's a good one.  Try this:

Remove the distributor cap and the 2 screws that hold the ICM in place.  Leaving the pigtail at the back connected and the small weatherpack pigtail connected to the ICM, disconnect the larger weatherpack connector.  Lift the module up so that you have a clear view into the module terminal.  This is so that you don't short anything while testing. 

With the ignition ON, probe the 4 terminals with a test light being careful not to probe two terminals at once.  One terminal should give you voltage with the ignition ON.  When you find that terminal, turn the ignition OFF and re-probe the terminal.  It should show no voltage.  This is your Fuel Pump Run signal to the ECM.  If you don't get voltage, then that circuit is dead.  You can still have spark, but the ECM won't be triggered to run the pump. 

Forgot to say--don't use a multimeter.  This is a low voltage circuit.  Use a test light only and it should light if there's voltage.  I think it's the first terminal from the left.

I'll have to do that. My wife is getting frustrated that the Fiero is sitting in the prime parking spot and not moving. LOL! I'll have to hot wire the pump for a second and move it. Tonight I will be working on the car so I will get to looking at the distributor tonight.

[jwrape]

Well, it looks like Charlie is correct again. :-)
I took a light probe and probed the wires from A-D on the ICM with the ignition ON and found nothing. I unplugged the plug itself and tested the prongs with the ignition ON and nothing.
I plugged it back in and put on my analog fuel pressure gauge to see if there was anything. I turned the car over and it started right away and had 50 psi of constant pressure. Weird. I checked all the wires and A was ground and B-D had power on them.  I let it run and then it started to studder as I watched the fuel pressure drop to nothing. As fast as I could I checked for power on the wires and nothing.
From what I can tell, as soon as the ICM got hot it quit.

Charlie, you were correct. I'm gonna pick up a ICM tomorrow.
Hopefully, I am gonna figure out a way to keep that Distributor cooler.

I see, from now on I will check the ICM first.........

[Fierofool]

Your results raises another red flag.  Normal fuel pressure, engine off, system pressurized, should be about 45psi.  At idle, you should hold about 38-40, +/- 2psi.  This can cause it to run a little rich and fuel economy suffers.  Other than that, it usually isn't a problem. 

If your ICM was a new one, it should have a lifetime warranty on it.  The only time I've ever found an ICM that didn't was a GM module from Colonial Pontiac.  It had a 90 day warranty, but since it was an electrical part, if it had been installed, it couldn't be returned.  It died in less than a month.

After it sputtered and died, could you hear the FP running when the ignition was turned on? 

[jwrape]

Yea, that 50 psi was a sure sign about that Fuel Pressure regulator being bad. I was wondering what the corerct numbers should be.

No the Fuel pump stops cold turkey when it spudders and dies, then the fuel pressure falls to nothing.


I have to remember which Auto parts store I bought it from. I called Monroe last night and they didn't have record of it. Now it could be Advance in Lawrenceville, or Autozone in Winder. I think it's Advance....