New Symptom - On way home from Club meeting

[MetalBlue85GT]

Looks like I have a compounded problem. Started dieing in turns and when I accelerate. tank is less than 1/2 so I am going to filler up first. then checkout. next will be the fuel filter and then troubleshoot the pressure and pump.

But one thing at a time - so I know. its going to be a fun few weeks - I am lucky I have a backup car. just the 11mpg is going to hurt after getting 22 for so long.

Thanks for the help.

[Fierofool]

If the problem goes away with a full fuel tank and returns when it gets back down to around 1/2 tank, you are probably looking at a deteriorated hose inside the tank.  That's about the point where they start to suck air if the hose has rotted due to the ethanol spiked gasoline.  NAPA sells a 5/16" hose that's ethanol submersible.  There is a difference in ethanol resistant and ethanol submersible.  Ethanol resistant will withstand ethanol running through it but won't withstand ethanol contact on the outside. 

The hose is rather expensive at about a buck an inch for a 6 inch piece in a blister pack.  But it's worth it to not have to worry about again. 

Edited to refer you to the Tech Tips section, Replacing A Fuel Pump.   

I will be moving this topic to the Tech Tips section this afternoon since it deals with problems and solutions. 

[MetalBlue85GT]

Well my issue of stalling on the freeway and at stop signs was quickly identified when I pulled the TCC wire from the tranny. However since that is now disconnected I have an underlying issue I am going to start working on and I would like to start a discussion on here.

Here are the symptoms:

After I start it first thing in the AM and with the TCC disconnected everything runs fine for the first 15 mins. After a solid warm up I am stalling (no back fires) and then fires back up. It happens at all drive speeds to include stops. last time I drove the car it first happened in a sharp turn with half a tank of fuel.

Right now I have it in the Garage about to change the TCC - then back to trouble shooting this underlying issue.

I will start with the obvious from the thread above.

Any other ideas that when the car gets warm - that it just randomly either quits firing or stops fuel delivery - It is going to be hard to trouble shoot since its sporadic.

Anyone close (Acworth) wanna go for a ride and see it first hand?

[TopNotch]

Things that can cause a Fiero to run poorly once warmed up...
Ignition module
"Fancy" spark plugs (iridium, platinum, etc.)
Fuel system (filter, pump)
Sensors
Worn engine (causing drop in oil pressure)

Experts out there, feel free to add to this list.

[MetalBlue85GT]

So TCC replace fixed it from Stalling in traffic, But I still have a second similar yet different symptom over the last 6 months. After it warms up 1-1.5 hours it stalls only when in gear or when I put a load on it. It revs fine.

I am in the middle of replacing the magnetic Pickup and I have a shattered magnet and need it replaced. (I put a request in the Market).

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/131555.html#p8

Here is my Pennocks listing... has a lot of detail.

I put pictures in there too.

I have been doing one fix at a time, and I am almost all the way through the ignition system and I changed the Fuel Filter to, both sides of the fuel looked clean that poured out of the filter.

Any other pointers?

[Fierofool]

I have one of those distributors that the bearing went bad in and the screw holes for the cap stripped out.  It's from Advance and I think it's a Dorman distributor.  It isn't very old, so the magnet should still be good.  You can have it.  I'll bring it to the meeting in February.  It also has a good pickup coil. 

[MetalBlue85GT]

Thank you - There are 3 screws holding the magnet on - check yours to see if the magnet is in one piece. I found a replacement Distributor from advance Auto And they were running a 40 off sale and free shipping; I should have mine running by Friday - Fiero Store was ridiculous - 169 - 50 core.

If yours is in one piece this will make a good distributor I can offer it to the Market for free or donor Car. If the new distributor fixes this intermittent issue then I can plan to come out to the meeting again...

I am sure in Spring when I clean out the garage I am going to bring all of my extras out for people to pick through. just so I don't throw anything away.

[Fierofool]

The one I have isn't very old, so the magnet is probably good.  The pickup coil is good.  The only thing this distributor is good for after removing the magnet and pickup coil would be to grind off the gear and use it as an oil pump primer to get the engine oiled up after a rebuild. 

We have a good engine and what should be a good distributor in the original Joel Project, and there's one that's at least operational in the Joel Project #2 car.  We can make one of our two and sell it to fund the Joel Project. 

BTW, the distributor you're getting from Advance is the same one you would get from The Fiero Store. 

[MetalBlue85GT]

I cannot wait to see if this Distributor fixes the problem. It shipped From Dallas and is at the GA facility (inclement weather) tagged on it. Too bad I don't have it for my snow day today.

[MetalBlue85GT]

The new distributor did not fix the problem - looks like a I am finally going to Go into the tank.

I am going to work on all the grounds first but I am sure I will end up on the tank next.
EDIT - All engine grounds have been updated. Next are the few hundred through out the car.

Test drive today to see if the symptoms change.

And I will be adding a Fuel Pressure gauge temporarily.

[MetalBlue85GT]

On PFF - one of the posts talked about a blower and tubes that cool the Coil and Alternator.

Does anyone know because mine is missing That I would definitely have this kind of problem? I do not have blowers for engine  area.

Update - Added new grounds to engine block to Frame and removed and reinstalled after a good dremel pass - Didn't fix the stalls but the windows roll up faster Dash lights are brighter and Electric locks open and close better.

Added the fuel Pressure gauge - 41 psi with car off - bleeds off to 20 PSI in 20 minutes.
started the Car and it ran just below 40 PSI. NEXT I Will heat the car up to stalls and check again.  Probably Saturday unless I get off earlier this week.

Randy

[Fierofool]

Yes, on 85-87 V6 models there is a pair of metal tubes bolted to the trunk wall.  One points at the ignition coil and the other points down at the alternator.  The blower is hidden in the upper level, right side of the trunk behind the carpet.  If the tubes are missing, you can turn on the AC and put your hand down where the tubes were previously located and feel the air if the blower is working.

Some say you don't need the tubes.  Their basis is that they were absent on the 88's.  The reason they weren't needed is that the 88 uses a smaller alternator that runs cooler and the crossover pipe was moved away from the ignition coil and distributor. 

Normal fuel pressure should be about 43.5 psi and drop to about 39-40 when running at road speed.  You should be able to hold pressure for at least a half hour.  With low fuel pressure, you would be starving the engine and I could see the possibility of it stalling when you come to a stop because of the low system pressure. 

[MetalBlue85GT]

I found the Blower and the Relay was lying there not hooked up. I will power check the blower at the next opportunity.  I will see what Alternator is has on it  to see if there is a reason that it was disconnected.

I cant imagine that this Blower is the reason but I am still convinced that it has something to do with heat.

Whether it is 90 out or 20 out; at the 1 to 1.5 hour mark this thing stalls. the second odd symptom is that it dies easier with an electrical load once it does start the stalling. I noticed that in 20 degree whether it starts after waiting a shorter amount of time then it did last summer and Fall.

Electrical is FM to me and I always hated chasing Gremlins in aircraft.

More to come.


Randy

[Fierofool]

The blower only works when the engine fan is running.  That happens if you turn on the AC or the engine temp gets high enough to turn on the front cooling fan.  Even if you have the late style small alternator, your crossover pipe is still close to the coil and ignition module, which also benefit from the blower.  I agree that the blower isn't the cause of stalling. 

Once it begins the stalling tactic, have you tried putting it into neutral as you're approaching a stop sign or light?  Maybe it has a Stahl torque converter installed in it. 

[MetalBlue85GT]

Nice Stahl...

Well I hooked up the relay tonight and the Blower works. I found duct that has a flange but no pipes connected. It is only stalling after 1 to 1.5 hours of run time. The duct is blowing light breeze cool air bit it is not right on to the ALT. and nothing going to the coil area. f

It runs well until the first stall. I have it running out there now trying to get to stall point. I have a test light Fluke and my Pressure gauge all hooked up.

electrical charge is 14.21v running. The RPMs dip 300-400 RPM when I run the headlights up. I have an electrical load on it now trying to force the stall.

I will let you know. Thank you for the conversation.