V8s, Brakes, and Transmissions

[pgackerman]

Howdy Folks,

I've been looking at modified Fieros on various boards, V8 Archie, and sale sites (ebay). 
How good are these modified Fieros?  I know it comes down to the quality of the work, and most look very good, but were talking about a vehicle initially designed to handle ~150HP.  What does doubling the HP do to the suspension, a manual transmission, and the braking system? 
Would the car become unusable as a daily driver?

[TopNotch]

There are many Fieros running around with 3800 Supercharged or V8 engines in them on stock or near-stock suspensions that do just fine. And many of them have stock Getrag transmissions. A few even have stock Isuzu transmissions (that came on 4-cylinder manual trans Fieros). They're OK if you don't push them.
The brakes are another story. For a bigger engine, you'd be better off with bigger brakes. There are many choices out there.
Many people drive big engine Fieros daily.

[pgackerman]

Do you drive a "big engine" Fiero daily?

[TopNotch]

No, but club member "Raydar" (Steve Hamilton) has a Fiero with a Cadillac 4.9 V8 in. I don't know if he drives it every day, though. You could PM him and ask.

[Fierofool]

Raydar was running a 4T60 series automatic behind his 4.9 Cadillac, but he changed it over to a Getrag from (I believe) a Beretta.  I think it's his daily driver on about a 30 mile one way into Atlanta. 

There's another local with an 87GT that's running a stock Getrag behind a 3800SC and he's using it as a daily driver.  I also met a guy up in NC that was running a built LS engine coupled to a stock Getrag and it was holding up well, even with an occasional burnout. 

Jack Cooke, up in NC has an 86 with a Cadillac 4.9 and a 4T60 series automatic and he does a lot of traveling in it without problems.  You can break an Iron Duke if you try hard enough, and you can install a 2.8 into your GT and have problems if the install isn't done correctly.  It just comes down to quality of install and how you treat it. 

[pgackerman]

You said the magic words, "quality of install". 

Who installed the bigger engines?  Did the owners do the work themselves? V8 Archie?  The Fiero Factory? 
BTW, The Fiero Factory lists a Caddy 4.9L Fiero as available. 

Same question applies to the brakes.

[Fierofool]

Email or PM Raydar about his 4.9.  There is a wide range of satisfaction with The Fiero Factory installs.  88_4mula had nothing but problems with his.  Jack Cooket and Dan Bunker had new crate engines and had issues with the quality of install from The Fiero Factory.  They eventually got those problems worked out.  The NC guy with the LS did his own work.  The 87 with the 3800SC was done by a local guy for one of his customers.  He no longer works on Fieros, though.  His own 3800NA sounds much like a 350 Small Block. 

My opinion:  The 4.9 is an obsolete engine, expensive and difficult to repair.  The 3800 has a lot of aftermarket support and is a very solid motor.  I once heard Raydar say that if he had it to do again, he'd go with a 3800.  Don't know if he still feels that way.  He's put a lot of time and effort into his, with some good upgrades. 

A 4.9 gives you somewhere about 200 HP and a V8 sound.  The 3800SC gives you about 210 or more out of the box, depending upon what series, with aftermarket goodies making it capable of over 400hp.  And you can always tell that Mustang or Vette that you just outran that it's 'Just a V6".

[pgackerman]

Slightly off-topic question.  Some ads state the car has the 3.4L upgrade, but the photo of the engine bay looks like a 2.8L.  How can I tell the difference between a 2.8 and a 3.4?

[TopNotch]

The 3.4 push-rod engine is the same as a 2.8, with a bigger bore and stroke. All the external (Fiero) parts fit, so in a Fiero it looks the same. Fierofool has one, and can tell you where to look to tell the difference.

[Fierofool]

The block should have a large F on the side.  Also from underneath the car, look at the bottom of the engine's bellhousing boss near the trunk.  You should see bolt holes where the Camaro/Firebird starter bolted.  Now go to the front side of the where the Fiero starter is mounted.  The bellhousing boss will not be flat where the starter mounts.  The forward most part will angle upward at a 45 degree and the outside starter flange will be unsupported where the bolt passes through it. 

There is also a provision in the trunk side of the block, just above the oil pan mounting surface and about mid engine to accommodate a crankshaft sensor.  Some, like myself leave the sensor in place when making the upgrade.  The sensor seals well and prevents oil leaks, and it's easier to just plug an existing sensor into your harness should you upgrade to a 7730 later, as is my intention. 

You can see the flat starter mount on this 2.8.  The 3.4 has a 45 degree cut from the top corner to the bottom surface.


This white out area is roughly the area missing on the 3.4 block.  The Rodney Dickman starter jig is used to drill and tap to mount the starter on this side of the 3.4.

[Raydar]

The Fiero Factory did my install in ~2006. There were a few corners cut, but nothing major.
I could pick up the whole car by the engine and shake it until the body panels fell off, and I think the engine would still be solidly mounted.
I've done a lot of stuff to it, since the swap, though. I replaced the 4T60E with a Beretta Getrag, as Charlie mentioned.
I've also installed an Allante intake. I haven't had it dynoed, but it's supposed to be worth about 20 HP.
"Seat of the pants" impression, it pulls like a train. I get mid 20s per gallon on the highway at a steady 80 MPH. Around town, I get around 18, the way I drive. I don't daily drive it any more. People in Atlanta tend to drive like cretins. Would rather let the Trailblazer do battle.
If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't do a 4.9. All it's power/torque is down low. It's all done by ~5K. It just doesn't suit the flavor of the car, although the manual tranny helped immensely. I would either do a 3800 SC or a 3500/3900 V6.
I believe the 3500 makes ~220 HP in stock trim. The 3900 makes about 15-20 more. The 3500/3900 is very similar to the Fiero block. It's almost a bolt in. The wiring, OTOH, is a different story. 
I have a set of 13" brake rotors with stock 88 calipers and pads. Fieroguru on Pennocks produces the kit. It stops nicely, without being too touchy. Did I really need such an upgrade? All I can tell you is that I have experienced some brake fade on one of our Run For The Hills trips, with the stock setup. I haven't noticed anything like that with the upgraded kit.
 

[pgackerman]

Let's change the topic a bit.  Has anyone had a 4 cylinder and replaced it with a modern 4 cylinder? 

[TopNotch]

The Quad 4 DOHC engine is a fairly popular swap. See this article on Pennock's.

[Fierofool]

I also found this recent thread on the Ecotec swap.   http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/132140.html

[pgackerman]

Time for another major swing.

Has anyone added T-tops to an '88?
How much would this cost?
Could a decent shop do the work?