high knock counts

[f85gtron]

Thanks for the help..
I've gone back and watched my log in real time because I was starting to worry myself to death!  By Re watching, I've learned that my ecm has been reacting to each event by retarding the timing. On a 20minute drive home, that was 250 Events!  Also, it doesn't happen during cruising, as previously thought, happens during acceleration, so I've got to have my timing wrong! 
I'll check timing tomorrow and report back.
Leaning more everyday!

[Raydar]

Are you still using a distributor? I was thinking DIS, but that's not necessarily true, I suppose.
Don't know how much "help" I've been. Mostly rambling... 

[f85gtron]

Tons of help.  I'm trying to make sense of this and diagnose at the same time, so any thoughts and input are better than what I'm coming up with without experience to pull from.

Its a dizzy setup. In this case, I'm glad for it. Apparently, without chip burning experience (of which I have none), it's a hell of a lot easier to turn a distributor than change a spark advance table. ...maybe someday.....

[f85gtron]

I forgot to mention that the egr is not functional and is blocked off completely at the upper plenum.

[Raydar]

Okay. The EGR being disabled removes some variables from the picture.
Before you do anything, I'd try filling up with premium fuel and see what happens. Unless Ryan has some other ideas.
If that works, you have three options, as I see it.
Keep running premium.
Back off the timing until it doesn't do it any more.
Ask Ryan to alter the tune. Maybe removing some advance from certain areas.

I'll add that when I had my 3.4 installed, it pinged at part throttle. (This is a common complaint, it would seem. At least on Pennocks.)
Crap gas made it worse. Premium gas made it better. Even radical amounts of change to the tuning didn't help much. (I was not doing the chips. Someone else was.)
The only time that it went away completely was after I took the engine apart and built it back up with ported heads and a big cam. (I suspect the cam made all the difference, since it was designed for higher compression than I was running.)
Before the "build" I could only run 8 degrees before it would ping. Afterwards, I was able to run nearly 12 degrees.
Sorry. More rambling...

[f85gtron]

Thanks. I went out and backed off the timing. I had it at 12. It was fine with the old ecm. I guess this one's more aggressive. Anyways, i managed to strip out what was left of a stud where the thermostat housing mates up to the intake manifold. I previously jb welded a stud in because i snapped off the original built in it, then drilled for an easy out with a left handed drill bit and it still didn't back out. The easy out broke off and i couldn't drill it out and ate up all the aluminum around it, so that's where the stud (upside down bolt) set into jb weld came into play.....which held nicely until last week.
I'm on the hunt for either a 3800sc or an intake manifold.....whichever i find first!

[f85gtron]

Raydar,
I found the data sheet I think you where referring too.  How do you read it?  Lots of numbers!

[f85gtron]

Update:
Retarded the timing to 8 degrees and started using premium, still getting high knock counts and seems to have stayed the same. My exhaust is ported and I'm running 1.6 rockers, so I wonder if it's picking up resonance?  I'll change the sensors location to the lower intake manifold and see what happens.......

[f85gtron]

PROBLEM SOLVED!
The 2.8 is an EXTREMELY noisy motor. Of course, I don't need to tell any of you that. Anyway......
The solution to the problem was in the sensor mounting. As suggested previously, I installed a 90° 1/4" npt elbow and then installed the knock sensor to it. All the knocks went away. Just startup and shut down knocks....like it should be.
Idk what it picked up before, but it would hit religiously at 2k rpm and would tally 70+ an event. Driving 20min to or from work would yield 200+ knocks that would result in retard being applied. It's a totally different car to drive now!
Ron

[Fierofool]

Where did you install the knock sensor and who recommended the 90 degree fitting?  Was it down on the side of the block?

[f85gtron]

The knock sensor is installed in the trunk side water jacket, where the vss wires run from the alternator. The 90° elbow suggestion came from ricer forums and Pennocks. I mistakenly remembered they originated from here (the best advice I've gotten thus far is on this forum ).  Without a reducer fitting, I was unable to install the sensor on the lim. All I had on hand was a stainless 90° 1/4" npt elbow. I purchased a 3/8" elbow and you should have seen me cussing while I was forced to understand, with coolant running up my arm and showering my head, that it was the wrong size!  Bet the neighbors got a kick out of the spectacle. 

[GTRS Fiero]

Why do you need the knock sensor?

[f85gtron]

For tuning purposes and if you’re running the spark to the limit for more torques, you need some kind of protection. It’s saved my booty in other ways too, bad gas has set it off. There’s other things that you can use the sensor for, but that requires a turbo-Choo-choo rig.

[GTRS Fiero]

Adding the knock sensor gave you more torque?

[TopNotch]

Adding the knock sensor gave you more torque?

With the knock sensor, the engine computer will learn how hard it can "push" the engine (by adjusting the timing) before knocking starts. Without one, it holds back a safe amount, and so the engine produces less power.