high knock counts

[f85gtron]

Other than detonation, what would cause high knock counts? 

[Fierofool]

You're running a knock sensor?  Where is it installed?  Hope it isn't picking up a rod or wrist pin knocking, if that's even possible.

[Raydar]

Anything that makes a vibration can be interpreted as a "knock".
Some of the 3800 swaps were actually picking up internal transaxle noise as knock. (i remember reading that, years ago.)
Not to say that that's what yours is hearing.

It's probably not gonna be a lot of fun to find.
Did your 7730 come from a V8 car or a V6 car? I've got a 7730 that came from a V6 car. If yours came from a V8 car, I'll trade memcals with you, if you're interested. (The knock module is part of the memcal, as I understand it.) This is assuming your PROM is removable. My 7730 is going on a 4.9. Someday.

[f85gtron]

Mine came from a 3.1 Corsica. Sorry.  Otherwise, I would trade. It happens only at part throttle. Not during lugging, not at wot, not at idle. I think it's some kind of vibration?  I hope it's not wrist pins! 

[f85gtron]

I forgot to answer where it's installed.
I installed it trunk-side (rear) at the water jacket plug location. There's a 3/8ths? plug there. 
I have no exhaust leaks, I think my timing is right (I'll have to double-check), but I need to check for metal clanging.

[f85gtron]

The knock module sits over the memcal in mind if a piggyback fashion. The knock module is a weird, cyborg-looking piece of electrickery. I think it's held in by six pins.

[Fierofool]

If I remember my old school (read that as shade tree) technology, if you have an engine knock at cruise or deceleration, it's a rod.  If you have a knock at acceleration, it's a wrist pin. 

Isn't the fan switch removed or disconnected, leaving that space available for a knock sensor?  I believe I read that because the 7730 actually controls the fan that some placed the knock sensor in the fan switch location.  I know this would require changing your harness, but it may not be as sensitive to extraneous noises.  Am I correct, Steve?

[Raydar]

I'm not a good person to ask about engine knocks.
My first swap was a 2.8 that had a knock, that I believed to be a rod.
The person I sold it to (actually, I sold the engine stand and "threw in" the engine) told me that it had been the timing chain making the noise. Although the engine was still worn out.

As for knock sensors... I have seen them placed in lots of different locations. The water jacket drain plug is one place. My 4.3 had one on the rear of the block, just behind the left head. My 5.3 LS engine (in my truck) has two of them - one in each end of the valley cover, under the intake.
Hadn't thought about the sensor hole, but it sounds like as good a place as any, to try.

In terms of all of our "retrofits", it seems like a guessing game, anyway.
One of the guys on Pennocks sent me a datasheet that described which knock sensors responded to which frequencies. I forget whether it mentioned applications or not. I might still have it if anyone might find it useful. To me, it was kind of "information overload".

[f85gtron]

If I've got a rod making noise, then it's probably a good idea to change bearing before they spin. Maybe this is a good thing.

[Raydar]

Can you hear anything suspicious?

[f85gtron]

No Suspicious noises. The timing chain thing makes sense, though. My timing marks jump around at idle, but are clear while revving up and down. Its been bothering me for a while.....but it's not loud. I'm sure it's stretched.
No pinging that i can hear. I lugged it in fourth up a hill and can't get it to run up anything but one or two knocks. Definitely some other  harmonic or noise.

[Roger]

Another suspect you may consider is the harmonic balancer. If the rubber ring has gone bad it will allow the timing marks to jump around so the timing never gets set correctly and you are getting an occasional spark knock.
Remove the drive belts and try to move the HB pulley. If there is ANY movement by hand, it's bad. There would only be movement when a great amount of torque was applied, such as when you stomp on it or at high RPM's, to keep the crank in balance.

If it sounds like a gremlin banging on the inside of the engine with a hammer,then its likely a rod. Send us a .wav or .mp3 file of it so we can better analyze.

[Raydar]

It happens only at part throttle.

I missed this.
"Part throttle", as in "steady state, highway cruising"?

That's when the EGR functions, or is supposed to function. A "dead" EGR (that the system thinks is functioning) can easily cause the engine to ping. A malfunctioning EGR can cause high NOx emissions without an audible ping, but maybe enough for the sensor to "hear"?
Just for grins, run the tank down as far as your comfortable and fill it up with premium. Or dump some alcohol or (I've heard) naptha into the tank. If any change in the fuel fixes your "knock" issue, it's probably "real". Or maybe just a tuning or EGR issue.
Of course, if your EGR is disabled in the tune, the fuel and spark tables should also be set up to accommodate it. If your datalogging is working, you might try to determine the exact parameters when it happens. what RPM, throttle opening, MAP reading, and etc. Send it to Ryan and he can probably tweak it.

[f85gtron]

I brought it up to him and I offered to do a log. I sent out to him and he didn't say anything other than the knock counts are excessive.
I'll run more logs and pin down the exact condition it happens.
A bit of info I picked up from the ricer forums that may help:
Don't worry too much about knock counts.....worry about knock retard, which is when the ecm actually reacts to these events.

[Raydar]

...
Don't worry too much about knock counts.....worry about knock retard, which is when the ecm actually reacts to these events.

...and I misunderstood.

It's not actually retarding the spark? Just seeing random knock events?
That's a whole 'nother thing. And a lot less worrisome, to my mind, anyway.
Keep in mind that I've never done a tune for knock, or knock retard.
Most of my ignition tuning is done by ear. I crank it forward until it pings, and then back it off until it doesn't. Of course, that might be a bit difficult with DIS.

On that topic, I think the timing ring on my damper must have slipped, because the car is pretty gutless with it set to spec, using a timing light.
After doing that, I set it by ear, as above. When I checked it with a timing light, I had added a whole ten degrees to the "spec". Something doesn't smell right. But it runs good, now.