Club's Formula Fastback

[MikeMac]

MikeMac had been installing new tire and alignment machinery and he and his mechanic were taking some courses offered by O'Rielly Auto Parts.  Last I spoke with him, he hadn't had time to work on the AeroDonamic car.  That was the weekend before RFTH. 

The fastback had to take a back seat to everything, but we're going to be starting some tech days now that RFTH is out of the way. 

How about it, Pat and Ron, instead of having a meeting day and a separate tech day, what do you think of meeting at 10AM on our regular meeting day, and if Mike's available to let us into his shop for tech sessions, we can get the fastback and maybe his car up and going real soon.

Yeah. I've been busy at the shop even though the shop hasn't been busy. Go figure.
Obviously the AeroDon car didn't make the run for the hills. My 90 year old Father in Law is drawing his last breaths and since my wife and I are his caretakers that's eaten up a lot of time too.

 I did go out in the shop today and move the getrag transmission for the AeroDon car about 2 feet from where it was sitting but I don't think that counts as working on it!

[Fierofool]

I just got permission to come down to your shop on Tuesday and help you with the Fiero if your Father In Law's condition permits. 

[Fierofool]

Spent some time at Northlake Automotive today.  We ohmed the pickup coil and compared it to a new one and it was only slightly lower.  Put everything back together and it started right up.  It sat and idled just beautifully.  Took it out for a test drive about a mile down the road.  Turned around and noticed the alternator light was on and the temp was climbing. 

Had to get Mike to come get me.  Left the car at a fruit stand for a couple of hours to cool off.  We took the jumper box back and hooked it up.  Started right up and I took off, only to make it about a half mile and it quit so I rolled into a church lot and we left it again.  It would fire up and die. 

Got fuel and still had the same problem.  Fire up and die.  We checked the spark and had spark, so now, it appears we have a fuel problem.  I had to drive all the way back home to get the tow dolly, then back to Northlake, load it and tow it to Mike's shop. 

[Raydar]

It's been asleep for a while. You woke it up. It's pissed.

[Fierofool]

Sinse it starts and dies, it's getting primed, but the fuel stops when the engine starts.  What should we look at?  At last attempts to start it, it was getting spark but wouldn't even fire off for a second, so it seems it isn't priming any more.  The relay clicka so we know it's good.

[TopNotch]

The relay clicks so we know it's good.

A relay can click and not be good. The contacts that close when it clicks can be bad.

[GTRS Fiero]

Heck, a fuse could be bad, but still test good, for that matter.

How do you know that the fuel stops?

Things to check?  Well, starts and dies could be a clogged exhaust.  No fuel shouldn't cause the alternator light to come on.  I'd check the alternator.

I'd check the ICM, if this still has it.  You can check fuel pressure, and the injectors.


Hmmm.  Temp rising.  Still thinking exhaust blockage.  I know it's been replaced, but other than running lean, the temp shouldn't suddenly rise, unless the coolant isn't flowing.  If the coolant stops, that's the pump/belt, or a leak in the system.  You could check the timing, but I suspect it'll run.  That would cause starting issues and temp issues.

By my understanding, for this to occur and the relay be an issue, the oil pressure sender is also a problem, but you didn't report low oil pressure.

Was this the car that has the thingy to collect some fluid or other?

[Raydar]

Ignition system. Maybe ICM.
When the engine is running, it supplies pulses to the ECM. If the pulses stop, it will cut off the fuel. I forget if it cuts off the relay or the injectors. Injectors, I think.
This is a separate circuit from the "start" circuit. (Remember the bad ICM that wouldn't let the engine start with the starter, but would push start just fine? Same thing only different.) Check the wiring/connectors, too.

[Fierofool]

The first problem was that the alternator belt broke.  That's what caused the overheating and the alternator light to come on.

The exhaust is clear.  On the way away from the shop, the car had lots of power.  When I noticed the alternator light on, I turned around and headed back.  Had to stop due to rapidly rising temps. 

The ICM has been replaced.  The start and die situation is that it only runs for about a second and dies.  Or at least it did.  At the moment, it won't even fire off but it does have spark.  That verifies that the coil, ICM, and pickup coil are all working properly. 

The oil pressure gauge is extremely inaccurate on this car, but the oil pressure sensor is only a backup system in case the relay fails.  The injectors are new, so all of them couldn't have failed.  The fuel tank was removed, thoroughly flushed and a new fuel pump was installed.  The car has been driven and run quite a bit since canister is on this car, but it has been emptied of all condensate. 

I don't think it's the timing.  On the second attempt to get it back to the shop, after it cooled, it started just fine.  I took off, made it about a half mile or less and it just starved out of fuel.  No backfires like it would if it were out of time. 

Fuses will be the next thing we check.  It was running down toward closing time and we didn't delve back into the problem. 

The clips on the back of the ICM are loose in the plastic end, but we got them installed on the two ICM terminals very tightly.  The external harness to the ICM are in good condition and attach solidly.  Previously when we were having a similar no-start situation, the ICM was changed out and produced no change.  That was what I went down to work on, yesterday.  We checked the pickup coil and made sure the terminals were all connected solidly.  Put it back together and it started right up. 

[GTRS Fiero]

I don't know what is on the alternator belt.  Is the water pump on that belt?  Either way, why did that belt break?

My injectors were new, and failed.  But I don't believe that's the problem here.

Never had one backfire on me when out of time.  Maybe the outer ring of the harmonic balancer is off, though.

Have you pulled a plug?

[Fierofool]

The alternator belt was ancient.  It was squeaking a little while it was running and we noticed that it was throwing little pieces of rubber before I went for a drive.  The broken belt stayed in the engine bay and we retrieved it.  It's very brittle. 

[Raydar]

The "startup" probably is happening through the cold start injector. Sounds like the regular injectors, for whatever reason, are not firing.
The injectors see a continuous 12V (two fuses), and the ECM switches ground to fire them.
If one of the ECM grounds is bad, it might cause it. Or the ECM could be bad. Or it may not be seeing the ignition reference pulses for some reason, as I said before.

Or... You might drop the fuse box down, and make sure everything is securely plugged in to the back side. (I believe that the circuits plug in. May not be hard connections. I've seen GM fuse boxes "lose" half of their circuits.)

[Fierofool]

Checking out the fuses was what we talked about checking out next.  Maybe we can all get into it on our next tech day. 

[Fierofool]

Melanie and I had lunch at The Galaxy Diner, yesterday.  While there, I asked Maria about our moving our meeting for the winter up to say, 10 o'clock.  She said no.  She was too busy at that time, but if we wanted to move it up to 12 noon, that would be OK. 

Aside from the Formula Fastback, we need to give Mike a hand on getting the AeroDonamic car back on the road.  Mike has been very generous to allow us into his shop. 

[scottb]

This might be completely off base: bad fuel pressure regulator?