Handling issues, 86SE

[Fierofool]

I drive the car, just that I'm careful on curves.  Usually don't go over the posted speed limit in them.  I wouldn't drive it in the rain until I get a good alignment on it.  In curves, it has a tendency to feel very loose on a hard left turn. 

The car is estremely smooth and handles well going down the interstate at 75-80 mph, as I did yesterday when I took one of the dogs to the vet, 30 miles away. 

The sway bar isn't the cause.  It reacts the same way with or without it. 

[GTRS Fiero]

Sounds like too much toe in or caster on the left rear corner.

[TopNotch]

My yellow car used to feel loose on a hard right curve for a while after I replaced the transmission. Turns out I didn't tighten the various rear left suspension nuts enough when I put it back together. It might be worth it to check if anything is loose back there. For a bad left curve, I guess you's check the right rear.

[Fierofool]

It has been very squirrely ever since I got it on the road.  Gradual replacement of parts has covered all suspension bushings ball joints and front tie rod ends.  It has gradually gotten better.  It was really bad and we found a blown right strut.  Don was coming back from ordering struts when it fishtailed with him, breaking the right knuckle and axle and bending the control arm.  Those were replaced.  It did improve and I credit that to the new struts and poly bushings on the control arms.  I think the only thing that hasn't been replaced is the rear stabilizer link bushings and tie rod ends and the steering rack.

[GTRS Fiero]

I still think the problem is in the rear.  If the steering rack is tight, it shouldn't cause a problem.

I think I'm in the camp of checking everything, rather than throwing parts at it.

[Fierofool]

All the suspesion had been beaten out, so it was needed, anyway. 

[GTRS Fiero]

I meant additional parts.

[GTRS Fiero]

When the rear sway bar was installed, it didn't connect to the lower control arms, did it?

[Raydar]

The rear bar is bolted to the cradle and lower control arms. Every 84-87 that I've ever seen is done that way.
It occurs to me that, with the amount of leverage that it can impart, compared to the 88 setup, it's probably way too big.
Although (generally speaking) "too much bar" would tend to make the car tail happy, every other pre-88 that I've seen was done in a similar manner. (Front bar in the back. Larger than stock front bar.) So I don't know. Pure speculation and generalization.

I think Charlie said that it was still tail happy even without the rear bar, but I could be mistaken.
I would be tempted to do an 88 cradle swap and be done with it.
Almost everything he needs is up at Paul's. He'd still need a coilover kit and the adapter brackets.

[GTRS Fiero]

The reason I ask is that I came across a thread where several people who should know stated that the rear ball joints shouldn't have vertical pressure on them, and that such pressure would damage the lower ball joints and make the car exhibit erratic behavior on turns.

I am the worst possible person to be doing this, but I'm working on an article.

[Fierofool]

Maybe the best thing to do is start from scratch.  Remove the larger front bar and move the stock bar from the rear to the front to see how it handles in it's stock form.  If nothing changes, then I know it's something in the suspension and the sway bars aren't the cause. 

Can you email a link to that thread?

[GTRS Fiero]

I almost didn't find it back--even going through my history.

I'll post it here, too.

Applicable post, from DIY_Stu:

Rears will only fail like that if you installed a sway bar mounted to the lower arm. The rear lower arm doesn't support the weight of the car. it just locates the rear wheel in/out and fore/aft. The strut that's mounted to the top supports the car. This is also why the rear ball joints just clamp in, they aren't designed to have vertical pressure on them. When you install the sway bar and attach it to the lower arms on the 84 to 87 cars you open yourself up to this type of failure. The only rear ball joints I've ever heard of failing were on a sway bar added car. On the front the lower arm supports the weight that's why the ball joint fails. Other makers flip the ball joints over so when they wear the ball is pushed into the socket and not pulled out like on GM models.

[TopNotch]

So if you cou8ld somehow attach the rear sway bar to the knuckles and not the control arms, that might work OK.

[Fierofool]

In the past couple of weeks, I've been driving the 86 to get a bite to eat or the grocery store or church.  I've been noticing a rattle at the right passenger side.  That rattle has been there for a while.  Just how long, I don't remember.  I always thought it was the vent grill because it doesn't sit tightly on the pin that's located on the side of the decklid.  To replace the grill after removing it, as I just did to replace the battery, takes some maneuvering to get the tab on the outboard rear side to fit into the slot in the body.  Even after in position, the grill must be pressed down in order to get the hold down bolts to engasge the U-nuts. 

This afternoon, I wondered if it was actually the grill or something in the suspension that I was hearing as I recently had occasion to drive across a small area of a dirt driveway.  Creep along in first gear.  The rattle was very pronounced.  The speed or severity of the surface wasn't enough to make the grill rattle.  So, when I came home from Church this afternoon, I decided to check the top end of the strut tower.

There are 3 studs in the top of the tower, plus the top of the strut itself.  All have nuts that help to hold the strut in place. 


I discovered that the 3 nuts that hold the studs were terribly loose.  One of them so loose that it had actually dome some minoir damage to its contact area, due to apparent movement. 


After tightening these 3 nuts, I replaced the vent grill and took the car for a drive.  No more rattle.  Feeling that I might have found the cause of the poor handling, I cautiously took a couple of sharp curves at the posted speed limit of 45 mph.  There was no tendency to oversteer on a right hand curve.  But the left hand curves were the ones that were the most problems, so I came back through the same curves at 45 mph.  Still no tendency to oversteer.  Previously, I couldn't take these curves at the posted speed limit. 

This may not be the total fix, but I suspect that the top end of the strut was never fully tightened for whatever reason.  As I get a little more bold, I'll increase my speed a little at a time to see if the handling is improved through a range of speeds.

[GTRS Fiero]

That's great news!