Kgoodyear fastback lenses

[GTRS Fiero]

They are very nice.  Clearly not yet a finished product, but very close.  Many people would probably happily install these lenses as-is.  Keith was nice enough to let me do whatever with the lenses.  Nothing hidden, no questions unanswered.  The process used for the manufacture of these lenses is an improvement on the factory lenses.  I'm not sure of the materials used, but these lenses seem to be much more resiliant than the factory lenses.  I'm not sure if they are thicker or heavier, and of course I'm comparing to 30-year-old lenses, but these new lenses are durable.

If you meet Keith, don't judge the book by the cover.

The remaining blemishes I saw were some unpolished areas, a few mold marks, some masking issues on the bar of the A and the right side of the I, and some odd marks and indents on the top edge.  They are aware of and addressing all these issues.

[GTRS Fiero]

Here are some pictures of the lenses:

You can see the clear new lenses on either side of a damaged stock lens.


Here is a new lens on the housing, with LED lighting.  You can't see it here, but there are some flaws on the curvy part, just about where that wire is.


Here is the back side of a new lens.  You can see the rough edges on the A and I.

There is no waviness in the face of the new lenses; the part that is supposed to be flat is flat.

[GTRS Fiero]

I could've sworn that I took a 4th pic of these lenses, but I can't find a 4th pic.

[GTRS Fiero]

Keith, on the right, reminds me of an actor who played Samuel Clemens.

[GTRS Fiero]

Well, Keith called me today.  He said he was in a bad mood, because he had received some bad news.  I really couldn't tell that his mood was any worse than normal, but his call left me so angry that I was shaking afterward. Needed item or not, there is no excuse for treating anyone like that.  I'm still a human being. 

This is totally a buyer beware item.  If he won't stand behind his product, it's worthless.

[Fierofool]

The lenses I held and inspected at the 25th Carlisle were of very poor quality, too.  If they had been examples of the final product, I wouldn't have purchased.  The lettering wasn't crisp.  There was lots of trash in the black.  There were mold parting lines that had no ink and would have let light show through when illuminated.  I did know that they were prototypes and improvements were being implemented. 

I placed my order to get in line, with the caveat in mind that I would cancel if early recipients began expressing unresolved problems.  As it stands at the moment, the appearance is acceptable, though they do seem to scratch easily.  I haven't installed and illuminated them yet.  I understand they aren't made of the same tougher material of the early prototypes.  Even so, they are much better than the 2 factory sets I have. 

[GTRS Fiero]

I won't admit how many factory sets I have.

The current lenses are better.  Keith's customer service is not.  The reproductions are better than damaged lenses.  Unfortunately, if you buy from him, you have to deal with him.  He promised a reputable vendor would sell these.  Hmmm.  He said he would fix the initial issues.  Debatable.  He said that he would address concerns.  Apparently not.  He said he quality checked every set, yet was--according to him--oblivious of the issues that have been mentioned by several people.  There are other things he said.  The facts seem to be at odds with what he said.  Maybe his planning just wasn't good.  Certainly, his understanding and usage of words is...very odd.

I understand that he has a significant financial investment in this product, which would seem to be all the more reason to treat your customers well, and to be truthful and honest.

So which to believe, what he said, or the facts in evidence?  Pretending ignorance of issues does not mean that they don't exist.

These lenses are more durable than the 30-year-old lenses, but not as durable as the ones in his videos.

Keith's lenses aren't terrible.  They are of mediocre quality, however inconsistent.  Out of 3 sets of his lenses next to each other, there were obvious differences visible with the naked eye, at arm's length.  These lenses were installed on the housings.  I guess quality is different for different people.  If someone says they have top quality lenses, I expect top quality.  These are not that.  If they say mediocre lenses, I expect mediocre.  Once you settle for lower quality as top quality, that's what you get.

[The Art Doctor]

So I take much of the issue is with how the lettering appears, correct?   The overall shape is correct and they match up to the housing and fit on the vehicle, correct?  I wonder if a subtractive manufacturing rather than additive could solve those problems.  Meaning, make the outer lenses in clear as they appear in a quality mold using an appropriate resin/plastic material like OEM then pour in the dark where it has to go solid with no lettering and then go back with a CNC mill and carve away the black to make the lettering crisp, quick trip through the polisher and done.   Im not in this business so I may be totally off base but that is the way I think my brain wants to go about it.  On the originals was the lettering debossed on the inside or flush?

I take it he was unhappy with your review in the Newsletter?

[Fierofool]

The reproduction lenses are printed.  The lettering on mine is very crisp.  Lines straight, corners sharp.  The samples I saw at Carlisle had very rough edges on the lettering. 

If any milling is done on plastics, it will fog.  If the tool speed is too high, acrylic and polycarbonate will overheat and form water bubbles inside.  If the substrate fogs, it can be cleared up by using a hydrogen flame to flame polish.  It basically melts the finish to allow it to flow smooth but the flame must be applied quickly so as not to create bubbles.  Acrylic is almost pure water.  You can take router shavings of acrylic, put them into a pile and ignite them.  All you will have left is a puddle of water. 

I always thought the factory lenses simply had a black membrane sheet heat pressed into the inside of the lense.  That's not the case.  It is a very thick casting well over 1/8 inch thick.  It bevels down to the edges of the lettering. 

[GTRS Fiero]

To my knowledge, Keith did not read my review, but probably not a fan of anything that isn't 100% positive of his lenses.  That is understandable.  It still doesn't make me subhuman.  I know nothing about plastics manufacture, but did run my review by some people who are, and who were involved in the lenses.  One of them explained what went wrong with the lenses.  Quality control did not catch the issue, and then fixing the issue became a cost issue.  A bunch of people were present when this was exposed.  Keith asked to be called when the lenses were uncovered.  I presented the issues, in the manner of observations.  If I ask about negative aspects of your product, you can be honest, or you can be belligerent; you can address concerns, or you can attack anyone who has the audacity to point out obvious issues.  I guess it doesn't get more simple than that.  In a nutshell, Keith said he would ignore me.  I did not cause his problems; they were all of his own making.

I have reviewed many products.  In the newsletter, I try to avoid products that would receive negative reviews.  Due to a review I did of a Trend Micro product, they developed a new product, and pulled the original.  My clients were given 1 year free with the new product.  That was way over the top, but the only way they found to address the issue.  With the free offer, they included a message, "Thanks for your review.  We fixed our product.  Your turn."  I submitted a new review.  Try as I might, I was unable to find an issue with the new product.  These are vendor product reviews, so only go to the vendor.

The lenses have a lot of issues.  Some of the issues are shown in the newsletter article.  Most of the other reviews of Keith's lenses were positive, and Keith responded positively to those.  For other reviews, Keith's replies were...not helpful.  I think my review was balanced, both in itself, and to other reviews.

The coating on the original lenses was a separate piece that was fused to the lens.  Keiths are painted to the back side.  The masking is poor, but I believe the coating will adhere.  It would seem that CNC milling the coating away would work poorly at best on the flat areas, but be impossible at the curved edges.  Milling would "scratch" the surface, or so I believe.

[The Art Doctor]

Thanks for all the explanations.  I have been dealing with sub-par restoration parts on everything I have ever owned for so long.  In the old car hobby everyone complains that the parts do not fit and/or are crap but they just go ahead and buy them anyways knowing they will have to be reworked because there is no other choice.  I think that this is some of where the "patina" or "Derelict" style came from, just being fed up with lack of quality restoration parts which in turn fed an acceptance of running cars around with flaws that the Bloomington Gold crowd would choke over.

If yours are smashed out or missing and you cannot get even ratty originals you have to accept that these are the best you can do and pony up.  I bet quite a few folks are in these shoes and will buy them as the only option.

One last noob question, how hard is it to fix the originals?  I have seen the bubbles that so many complain about.  Have people tried re-adhering the black to the clear using water thin optical epoxy like HXTAL forced into the voids using a vacuum pump/chamber?  Do the clear parts go yellow or just haze over? Exteriors can be polished, correct?

[GTRS Fiero]

Gtoformula in the newsletters vendors list repairs original lenses.

Yes, the lenses can be polished, masked, and painted.  They look great that way.

[Raydar]

I'll just drop these here...