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Author Topic: Timing cover woes  (Read 15244 times)

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GTRS Fiero

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Timing cover woes
« on: December 20, 2019, 08:57:30 pm »
Apparently, there are 2 timing covers for the V6.  I'm trying to understand how the gaskets fit, and what the differences are between the timing covers.

There is a round blue gasket, the water pump gasket, a V gasket, and 2 brown rings of different sizes.

Fierofool

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 09:18:25 pm »
There is a gasket for the 2.8 and a different one for the 3.4.  The reason is that the 2 water pumps rotate in a different direction so the intake and discharge ports are positioned differently.  The reason they rotate in opposite directions is because the 3.4 had an extra pulley which placed the belt on the opposite side of the water pump pulley. 
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 09:20:57 pm »
I was looking at the TFS kit.

Fierofool

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 10:41:43 pm »
Yeah, the 85-86 timing cover sloped at a 45 degree angle where it met the oil pan.  The 87-88 timing cover was flat at the bottom where it met the oil pan.  The 3.4 also used the same timing cover gasket as the 87-88.  Maybe the 3.1 did, too.  We don't hear much about the 3.1 being swapped in, so there's not much information on our forums. 

Pat pulled an engine out of a car we had a long time ago.  I believe it was a 3.4, but it had a cast aluminum oil pan.  I seem to recall that it came from a FWD vehicle.  Maybe a van.  That one may have had a different timing cover, too.  I don't remember where the club got that car. 
There are three kinds of men:

1.    The ones that learn by reading.
2.    The few who learn by observation.
3.    The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.    Will Rogers

GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 08:56:29 am »
Will the later timing cover fit earlier engines?

I don't understand how, if the timing cover gaskets are different, due to rotation of the water pump, and the intake/discharge ports are different, the parts can swap.

Raydar

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 10:32:21 am »
The 87-88 timing cover was flat at the bottom where it met the oil pan.  The 3.4 also used the same timing cover gasket as the 87-88. 

The 87-88 was flat at the corners but the pan had a "scoop" cut out of it. The timing cover had a rounded section where the crank nose came through. This was essentially the same as the Chevy V8. And the 3.4 did use the same style pan and gasket.
Timing covers were interchangeable across the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 if the matching oil pan was used, and if the correct water pump orientation is observed.

This is the 85-86 pan gasket.
The tapered area to the left is what seals the "45 degree" nose of the pan. The black seal goes at the rear, around the crank.


This is the 87-88 pan gasket.


This is the correct WP gasket for our cars. Note the rectangular port on the right.                                             


This is the gasket for the "other" water pump rotation.


I hope Rockauto doesn't mind the hot-linking of their photos. :D
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GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 12:45:50 pm »
So, a timing cover from the 3.4 would work on an '88 2.8?  Of course, since my block is a 3.4, it would seem that the reverse is true.

I understand that the 3.4 oil pan is different from the '88 2.8 oil pan.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 02:23:23 pm by GTRS Fiero »

TopNotch

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 01:29:25 pm »
Pat pulled an engine out of a car we had a long time ago.  I believe it was a 3.4, but it had a cast aluminum oil pan.  I seem to recall that it came from a FWD vehicle.  Maybe a van.  That one may have had a different timing cover, too.  I don't remember where the club got that car.
Didn't we get that car from Robbie?
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Raydar

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 02:16:55 pm »
So, a timing cover from the 3.4 would work on an '88 2.8?

Yes.. Assuming the water pump is the same as ours. (But I'm betting it's not, since the earlier Camarobird 2.8s already had reverse rotation water pumps.)

Quote
I underdtand that the 3.4 oil pan is different from the '88 2.8 oil pan.

There are some differences. I'm not sure what they are. It will bolt to the 2.8, provided that the 2.8 has the 87-88 timing cover. Or the 3.4 cover, as mentioned earlier.
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Fierofool

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2019, 04:00:28 pm »
Steve, thanks for the correction about the gaskets.

Pat, yes we did get that car from Robbie.  It had belonged to one of his customers who didn't pay for the work done on it.  I don't remember if it was a 3.4 or a 3.1. 

The differences in the 3.4 and 88 Fiero oil pan is very minor.  There's a little difference in the shape at the front corner of the pan that requires taking a small amount off the front engine mount, or doing a light bit of persuasion with a hammer to provide clearance. 

The pan also has an oil level sensor in the side of it.  The baffles in it are cut slightly different to accommodate a little larger oil pump, pickup tube and screen.  If the 88 pan is used on a 3.4, the baffles have to be trimmed a little so the 3.4 pump and pickup will have clearance. 

I believe the timing covers are different between engines.  Pretty sure they will bolt to one another, but the different rotation of the water pump and the flow of water would probably prohibit universal use. 
There are three kinds of men:

1.    The ones that learn by reading.
2.    The few who learn by observation.
3.    The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.    Will Rogers

GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2020, 09:56:40 pm »
How the heck does an aluminum timing cover "rust"?

scottb

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2020, 05:30:34 pm »
How the heck does an aluminum timing cover "rust"?

Chemical reaction

GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2020, 06:08:25 pm »
So, it gets brown rust?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 08:46:25 am by GTRS Fiero »

scottb

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 06:17:26 pm »
Cast Aluminum is porous, it collects the rust particles in the divots

GTRS Fiero

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Re: Timing cover woes
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2020, 07:19:39 pm »
So, the rust came from something else?