3.4 swap runs but sputters smooths out then dies smells very rich

[GTRS Fiero]

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if there is vacuum on the line to the MAP sensor/FPR.

[Fierofool]

The MAP sensor is attached via a T connection, direct to the upper intake manifold.  Of course, that connection is underneath and out of sight, so it could be disconnected.  While replacing my MAP sensor, I snapped the short connector tube underneath.  Had I not felt it break, I wouldn't have known. 

[Raydar]

The rubber connectors (elbows and "T"s) that hold all the hard vacuum lines together are always suspect, IMHO.
When I did my 3.4, I ended up replacing ALL of the plastic hard lines and rubber connectors with the proper sized rubber lines, and new plastic T-connectors, where needed. It wasn't nearly as sexy, but all of my mysterious vacuum leaks (and running issues) were gone.

[Sandman87]

If I unplug the map sensor the check engine light comes on and it will not run.I do have some silicone hose here I guess I could go ahead and rerun all the vacuum lines just to rule them out. The two vacuum lines that go to that EGR solenoid have no vacuum. When the engine is running the bottom port on the throttle body has no vacuum. And there are two vacuum lines that come from the wall of the trunk that go to the charcoal canister that I cannot blow air through or suck air into I don't know if that is normal. I think that charcoal canister is clogged but I don't know if that would cause these issues.

[Fierofool]

The throttle body vacuum port may be closed at idle because the EGR solenoid doesn't work all the time.  If you have a vacuum gauge you an attach to the hose at the solenoid, try jazzing the throttle and see if you get a vacuum reading. 

The canister should have no effect on the performance of the engine.  It simply accepts gas vapors from the tank as it pressurizes, then the port to the manifold sucks those vapors out when the engine is started.  It might be an issue if the valve on top of the canister were stuck open, creating a vacuum leak, but if it's stuck in the closed position there should be no problem. 

[Fierofool]

I have tested a spare charcoal canister and throttle body.  I can't make a real determination on the throttle body since it's removed from the intake and the back of the port is open, but the port enters a channel that runs around the perimeter of the venturi to the top where the Holley logo is located.  It appears that it connects to a channel that then runs down the opposite perimeter of the venturi and connects to the other port on the bottom.  This would provide a vacuum indirectly from the charcoal canister. 

The throttle body port nearest the firewall is the one that attaches to the canister via the metal lines on the trunk wall.  The port nearest the distributor and idle control valve connects to the EGR solenoid.  The other line from the solenoid connects to the EGR valve. 

In testing the canister, I find that the nipple on the very top of the canister will operate the valve in the canister.  I can hear it click as vacuum or pressure is applied and released.  The other small nipple does not seem to flow with either vacuum or pressure and may be dependant upon the position of the valve.  I can't apply a vacuum and pressure to both at the same time.  The larger nipple goes to a metal line on the fender wall and transitions directly to the fuel tank. 

I have 2 or 3 sets of good plastic lines but I wouldn't dare try to ship them.  I guess the best thing to do if you find there is a need to replace them is to order a set of stainless lines from Rodney Dickman.  Pricey, but they will forever solve the problem and they are a much better fit than lines sold by some other vendors.  Previously, they were around $150 but I see he's reduced the price.
http://rodneydickman.com/product_info.php?products_id=86

[Sandman87]

Yeah I guess when I get back out there tomorrow I'll run some new vacuum lines and see what happens. I'd love to have the Rodney dickman steel lines but that is super pricey and I'm already into this car $1600 way more than I expected and I can't even drive it yet! And Remember I got the car for free!

[Sandman87]

Well I got her all warmed up right now she's idling at 1200 RPMs little hiccup here and there idols in drive at about nine hundred to a thousand RPMs which is a little high I think and maybe my mind just tricking me but I might be here in a little bit of a vacuum hiss back there so tomorrow I'm going to run on new lines and see if that don't smooth things out. Been sitting here running for about 30 minutes.

[GTRS Fiero]

900-1,100 RPM at idle after the engine warms up is normal.  It may run as high as 1,500 when cold.

So, what did you do to get it to idle?

[GTRS Fiero]

If I unplug the map sensor the check engine light comes on and it will not run.

That is not normal.  It should run, although rich and not well.

[Sandman87]

I just held it at 2 k for a minute to keep it running then it idled . It's not right though .it's run better before. Still poping here and there when warmed up . And will go threw kind of a cycle of looping rpms then smooth out and be steady then loop agian . It's weird .even with my foot on the gas to keep it at 2 k it will surge to 2500 and down to 1500 .then be smooth for a few seconds . Then Do it again .  I wish I could post a video of it .

[Sandman87]

Brand new vacuum lines and replace the throttle body gasket same thing

[Fierofool]

There is an O-ring in the back of tne throttle body where the large metal tunbe attaches.  Is it in place?

[Sandman87]

Yeah that is in place. use a little bit of propane from a torch to detect any vacuum leaks didn't get any changes in idle. I put it on jack stands and ran it at 40 miles an hour for about 10 minutes and now it seems to be idling right on a thousand RPMs in neutral and 900-1000 in drive doesn't always want to stay running in drive but if I barely touch the throttle a little bit for a couple seconds then it will idle in drive. Hasn't been popping anymore so maybe just getting it up to speed got some sensors figure it out. I have a small hairline crack in the oil pan so I just threw some J-B weld on there for now got to let that cure for hours temporary fix. Once I was cured I'm going to fill it back up with oil and try and take it for a drive weather permitting. I will update everyone later on today. What's so far it seems like she'll be drivable!!!

[Fierofool]

The ecm needs road speed sensor input to learn setpoints.

I don't mean to throw another wrench in the gears, but if tne rear of the car wasnt supported under the control arms, you can damage the axels by running it in gear.  Pay attention to them, especially the short left one.