Gasoline buyers beware of E-15

[88_4mula]

E15 is a blend of gasoline and up to 15 vol% ethanol. Prior to EPA's October waiver decision, the amount of ethanol in motor vehicle gasoline was limited to 10 vol% (E10). E10 was granted a waiver under Clean Air Act section 211(f)(4) more than 30 years ago and is now ubiquitous in the marketplace, making up over 90% of the U.S. gasoline market.

This goes into effect as of the Jan. 1, 2012.
This fuel will ruin fuel components in older cars and trucks.
Ethanol is corn bases which means it has water in the fuel.
Cars such as fieros with the metal fuel lines and metal fuel tanks....this fuel will cause rust and eat the tank, fuel lines and engine components from the inside out.

[Duchess]

Maybe this will help:
http://www.historicvehicle.org/Commissions/Commissions/Legislative/Pure-Gas-Map/Southeast

I would have to drive almost 30 minutes to get to an ethanol free gas station

[redraif]

wow 15.2 miles or 20 for me!  So what do we do?  have to use a stabilizer ar each fill up?  Lord all my toys are old and not made for this.  Plastic fuel tanks? plastic fuel lines? 

[Fierofool]

The most immediate effect is on the rubber parts in the fuel system.  They can withstand E10 for a while, but even with that, they'll eventually melt.  Usually the first thing is the rubber hose on the fuel pump, since it's immersed in gasoline most of the time.  NAPA has an ethanol submersible hose that's ideal for replacement.  Information on that is in our Tech Tips, I believe.  The fuel tank has a plastic liner in it that is pretty durable. 

E15 will greatly speed up the process.  When getting fuel, look at the pump.  It must disclose the fact that there may be ethanol in the fuel, and it must tell you what the maximum amount is.  Something like  "May contain up to 10% Ethanol by volume"

[jjblue87]

Its not going to be that easy/Scary.  E15 will be/IS allowed, its not mandated.  It was my understanding it was approved in the last part of 2010 or early this year but stations are reluctant to sell it becuase it has to carry a warning sticker that says "for post 2001 and flexfuel vehicles only". Since they would have to essentially provide E10 and E15 pumps and tanks ,few are wiilling to do so.  I agree with the the concern though i challange that anyone has found many pumps that today dont read "MAY contain up to 10% ethaneol"...Finding a pump that doesnt say that is about as likely as finding one that says leaded :*)

find your happy place..like our own bodies..your car is going to die of something. ..They are all 25 years old.  carry some extra tubing and a fuel pump along with the 4 or 5 ignition modules and dont stress over it.

[redraif]

I had heard premium had less ethanol... is this true... the small machinery folks have been pushing premium to keep lawn mower and such alive

[oldone]

i talked to a oil and gas company up here in cartersville, they sell gas with ethanol and gas without ethanol. the gas without ethanol at the time was 3.899 per gallon-octane 90 . the ethanol gas was octane 93 i'm not sure of the price on  premium ethanol gas but its probably close to the non ethanol gas. the thing is with ethanol gas you have to subtract 10/15 percent from the octane figure to make up for the ethanol. 10 percent would be around 86 octane and 15 percent would be about 83 octane. the man said when he switched over to the no ethanol gas he gained about 4 mpg. i'm going to give it a try and see what happens.

[TopNotch]

Actually, ethanol raises the octane rating, but it contains less energy then gasoline (because it's made of smaller, lighter molecules). So your car gets less miles per gallon with ethanol.

[GTRS Fiero]

I'm curious.  Since we're all running ethanol fuel, other than shorter engine life, lower MPG, less power, hotter engine temps, and clogged cats, did any of the rest of this happen?

[Raydar]

I'm not aware of any vendors going to E15 yet, due to consumer outcry. Most of the pumps around here are still labeled "up to 10%".
Curiously enough, when the Chevron up the road from me got new pumps, they never bothered to put those labels back. I don't see "up to 10% ethanol" anywhere in the station. I've thought about complaining to the state, but I don't know where to complain. (Charlie? Have you any insight?) I've usually got something else going on, anyway.
But... I don't feel like being charitable, and just "reminding" them, since they have another station a couple miles from here that sells 90 octane "no ethanol" gas for over $3 per gallon. Since they want to gouge, I wouldn't mind seeing them get fined for improper product labeling.

I haven't really experienced any bad things™, due to E10, other than what I perceive to be really crappy mileage, compared to what I'm supposed to be getting. (Of course, my driving style doesn't have a thing to do with it, I'm sure.)
My car is "flex fuel", and will adjust for anything up to E85, so even if I was feeding it a steady diet of E15, it shouldn't hurt anything.

[GTRS Fiero]

The most immediate effect is on the rubber parts in the fuel system.  They can withstand E10 for a while, but even with that, they'll eventually melt.  Usually the first thing is the rubber hose on the fuel pump, since it's immersed in gasoline most of the time.  NAPA has an ethanol submersible hose that's ideal for replacement.  Information on that is in our Tech Tips, I believe.  The fuel tank has a plastic liner in it that is pretty durable. 

E15 will greatly speed up the process.  When getting fuel, look at the pump.  It must disclose the fact that there may be ethanol in the fuel, and it must tell you what the maximum amount is.  Something like  "May contain up to 10% Ethanol by volume"

I meant parts like this.  Changine the engine (I'm guessing you meant your 4.9) won't help the fuel hoses, unless you replaced those also.

[Raydar]

...
I meant parts like this.  Changine the engine (I'm guessing you meant your 4.9) won't help the fuel hoses, unless you replaced those also.

I was actually talking about my G6 commuter, since it gets driven the most (probably 250 miles/week) but I haven't had any fuel hose failures. or any failures, really, in any of the other cars, that I could attribute to the ethanol. The EVAP system in my truck, and the catalyst in my Miata have both had issues, but I'm blaming the quality of the parts.

[Fierofool]

In Georgia it's the Dept. of Agriculture.  They have always been the one to regulate gas stations, so it isn't due to ethanol.  They monitor pump volume and price accuracy and quality of the product to be sure it's pumping what it says, so I guess that would include ethanol content.    It may be different in other states. 

When I was on city council, a lady asked where she could report a local Shell station because her gallon lawn mower milk jug held more than a gallon, according to the pump.  She made the call to the Ag Dept and said they reported to her that they tested the next day. 

Back in the early 60's when I ran a station, my pumps were tested several times a year.  Maybe because I had a pretty good location with good sales volume.  Never got a violation notice.  In more ways than the cheaper grade, I guess I did sell Good Gulf.  Old timers will know what that means😀

[Drewbdo]

Within the past six months or so, the local Quik Trip here in Cartersville added "real gas" to a few of their pumps. No Ethanol.

I think the handle is red, if I remember correctly, while the regular pumps have black handles (or green for diesel).

Do I need to be using that in my Fiero, or is the "new normal" E-10 ok?

[Fierofool]

There is a 1 or 2 inch hose on the output end of the pump that usually turns to jelly as a result of ethanol.  Replacement pumps may have ethanol resistant hoses, meaning they resist from the inside but may not have ethanol submersible hoses, meaning they also aren't affected on the outside surfaces.  Unless the pump and hose have been replaced, no ethanol would probably be best for the rubber parts or purchase the submersible hose from NAPA.  I assume that would affect the regulator diaphragm and injector seals, too.  Sometimes the pulsator seal is mush from ethanol contact so people don't replace it.

The Duchess' link is no longer valid but you can go to www.pure-gas.com and find all stations listed by state/city/brand/address.  Four in Cartersville but no QT among them.